r/worldnews
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u/CBSnews
CBS News
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Mar 22 '23
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China's Xi leaves Russia after giving Putin a major boost, but no public promise of weapons Russia/Ukraine
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-ukraine-news-russia-xi-jinping-vladimir-putin-depleted-uranium-rounds-kyiv-deaths/72
u/CBSnews CBS News Mar 22 '23
Here's a preview of the story:
China's President Xi Jinping left Moscow Wednesday morning after a closely watched, highly choreographed visit that saw him stand shoulder to shoulder with Vladimir Putin just days after an international arrest warrant was issued for the Russian leader for alleged war crimes in Ukraine. In a display of unity and an apparent swipe at Western nations that have helped Ukraine fight Russia's invasion, including the U.S., the men signed a joint statement saying it was necessary to "respect legitimate security concerns of all countries."
What the world saw of Xi's long anticipated visit was meticulous stagecraft designed to portray a counterforce to the U.S.-led NATO alliance of the West. Russia declared last year that it was building a new "democratic world order" with China, and as the two men walked toward each other down long rugs to meet in the center of an ornate, palatial hall in Moscow for a firm handshake, the signal to the rest of the world was unmistakable.
A statement released by China's government after the meeting said Xi and Putin "shared the view" that their two countries' "relationship has gone far beyond the bilateral scope and acquired critical importance for the global landscape and the future of humanity."
Their public message on Ukraine, in the joint statement and at the podiums, was a call for peace — but on the basis of a vague plan unveiled by China in February which the U.S. and its allies have dismissed and derided as a stalling tactic, as it includes no call for Russian forces to withdraw from Ukraine.
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u/nardev Mar 23 '23
This is like a dystopian movie, only that it is real. These two are seriously trying to sell it as a democracy? Please someone pinch me and tell me I am just having a bad dream. Humanity cannot be boiled down to this level of stupid. A layman can see this is a dictatorship not a democracy. What the actual fuck is going on with the world?
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u/LeMickeyJam3s
Mar 22 '23
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China is perhaps already secretly sending civilian drones and AA missile radars. They lie as much as Russia and wouldn't announce any munitions shipments anyway
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u/kongKing_11 Mar 23 '23
I read the link there is no reference to weapons shipment. Stop lying to gain karma.
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Mar 22 '23
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Mar 22 '23
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Mar 22 '23 edited Mar 22 '23
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Mar 23 '23
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Mar 23 '23 edited Mar 23 '23
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u/FunTao Mar 23 '23
They’ve been doing that since 2014. So it’s not like it suddenly happened before the invasion
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u/sicariobrothers Mar 22 '23
And it’s a game that western intelligence agencies already play well.
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Mar 22 '23
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Mar 22 '23 edited Mar 22 '23
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Mar 22 '23 edited Mar 22 '23
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u/chippymonk793 Mar 22 '23
It's not in Russia's interest to buy weapons from China. Russia inheriting the deceased Soviet's reputation in international weapon market takes China as their direct competitor. Buying weapons from China will ruin their weapons trade to India / Middle East / Africa for good, and that's Russia's 2nd major income apart from gas. Why would they do that? It would be like Apple buying Microsoft laptops for their branch office, it's just ridiculous
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Mar 22 '23
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u/chippymonk793 Mar 22 '23
It's a reputation thing. China can already supply everything Russia make, including all of the aircrafts / tanks / missiles / ships / air-defense / radar / drones, it's solely the Soviet reputation still keep old Russia in the game of international arms trade. Them buying their own shit from China would be the last straw.
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u/Deltahotel_ Mar 23 '23
Well when you have over a hundred thousand die and shoot tons of ammo, small arms and munitions start to get scarce. Reputation concerns don’t outweigh your expenditure outpacing your production
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u/TexasYankee212 Mar 22 '23
Russia and China have a common border. China can "sneak" military supplies to Russia disguised as "household goods" or "refrigerators". Or as previously written, through a 3rd country. There are easy ways that China can ship military supplies to Russia.
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u/Gluca23 Mar 23 '23
The equipment will be spotted in the battlefield, soon or later, and hope is their turn to get sanctioned.
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u/bombayblue Mar 23 '23
Giving Putin a “major boost” is such a horribly written headline.
He didn’t give Putin anything. You can’t have two major world leaders meet each like this and not walk away with something. Hence the joint declaration of friendship they issued basically saying “we both want to respect our borders and support each other diplomatically and economically and stuff”
Which is already the status quo with Russia and China, hence my statement that Putin got nothing.
The entire purpose of this meeting was to get more material support for their war in Ukraine or some kind of large economic aid package. He didn’t get either.
And he sent T-54/54 tanks to Ukraine the day this summit ended. Not a great week for Putin.
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u/ActiveAd4980 Mar 22 '23
So under the table kind of deal?
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u/RandomStuffGenerator Mar 22 '23
I guess only one of them was under the table, given the situation
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u/isitaspider2 Mar 23 '23
Which is strange considering how big that table is. You could fit the entire upper command of Russia under it and still have room for Tucker Carlson under there too.
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u/Hades_adhbik Mar 22 '23
If Russia doesn't care to dispatch of putin because he's evil, they don't mind they he murders anyone that criticizes him, they should at least dispatch of him because he's a failure. He can't get the job done. He promised you Ukraine, but Ukraine is still standing. Even after all this abuse and torment. Support keeps pooring in, inspite of all the efforts to get it to stop.
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u/nyc-will Mar 22 '23
We like our cheap Chinese crap too much to stop doing business with China, so they can get away with stuff like supporting Russia.
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u/simonebaptiste Mar 23 '23
Too bad they both didn’t fall out of a window.. embraced in friendship…while double Dutch rout erring each other…
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u/scarabic Mar 23 '23
Why does world geopolitics have to be so goddamn dire? We have this veneer of civilized society, trade, people travel around as tourists visiting f each others countries, and then, under the sheet, powers like China, the US, and Russia are all furiously plotting to undermine and destroy each other. Can we ever get over this shit?
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u/Wwize Mar 22 '23
China will likely send weapons in secret. They want to help Russia but don't want the world to know that China is now an accomplice to Russia's war crimes.
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u/xlsma Mar 23 '23
What's the point of doing it "in secret" when some (if not all) of it would be destroyed in Ukraine and identified as Chinese?
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u/Wwize Mar 23 '23
It might not be identified as Chinese. China has a lot of old Soviet stuff too. They could just send that to Russia and it's identical to what Russia already has. Artillery shells and ammo are good examples of things that are difficult or maybe impossible to identify as Chinese if it's old USSR stuff.
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u/eggsarenice Mar 23 '23 edited Mar 23 '23
Not true. China only has Soviet stuff until before the Sino-Soviet Split in 1960 (and the fighter program in the 90's). From Chinese 7.62x39 rounds (which Russia doesn't use anymore, they switched to 5.45x39 in the AK74) to Chinese made artillery shells you can find out by markings what date they were made and China made them.
If you want to talk about big ticket items such as missiles, you can definitely tell where they are from. Different semiconductor markings, chip variations. You can even visually tell the difference of a Chinese Type 59 (T-55 copy). Even Chinese purchased Su-27 in the 90's will have differences in avionics and different ECM pods that is identifiable, and I doubt any of them still fly with China buying them just to copy for the J-11. J-15 and J16 were copies from an unfinished SU-33 prototype that they bought from Ukraine. Those are totally different with Chinese radar, avionics, missiles. Even the engines are different.
What you cannot identify is if they got them recently or not. But as far as I know, Russia never used Chinese ammo. Unless it personal purchase, but that would seem to be against the import laws of both countries.
Edit: Ah the classic reply and block
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u/Wwize Mar 23 '23
Russia is starting to dig into its 1950's stockpile, so they could be getting more of that stuff from China too.
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Mar 22 '23
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u/Wwize Mar 22 '23
You are the one who is wrong:
Nobody has claimed that China has already sent weapons. The claim is that they are considering sending weapons, and that is supported by US intelligence.
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u/jzy9 Mar 22 '23
What are we, doing thought crimes now? Since they “consider” and haven’t sent weapons, wouldn’t the conclusion be that the answer was no, let’s not send weapons. And yet you claim they will send it in secret.
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u/kylepatel24 Mar 22 '23
In regards to these talks that happened now though, i wouldn’t necessarily blame the US if they don’t have intelligence on these new agreements, weeks to come, sure its a valid question to ask.
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u/Durumbuzafeju Mar 22 '23
So basically Putin is left on his own. No help from China, but he himself pledged to help them a lot. This looks like a diplomatic defeat.
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u/Top_Membership_7512 Mar 22 '23
My sweet summer child. What china says and what china does rarely match up. Although China itself remained neutral, three million Chinese soldiers participated in the conflict as part of the People's Volunteer Army fighting alongside the Korean People's Army during the Korean War.
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u/00xjOCMD Mar 22 '23
No help from China? There are multiple reports that Russia has already received weapons, ammo, drones, computer chips, and body armor from China.
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u/courage_wolf_sez Mar 22 '23
CCP: What could be more peaceful than supporting the invading country?
...Do you even know your own history anymore?
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u/Eph_the_Beef Mar 23 '23
Oh they do. It's just that now it's their turn to start doing the invading.
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u/icrushallevil Mar 22 '23
China publicly: We don't give weapons.
China secretly: We give weapons to you.
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u/Rosebunse Mar 22 '23
I just think China doesn't want Russia to have its actual weapons because then everyone would find out that they were crap.
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u/Sparkycivic Mar 23 '23
China would rather that Russia continues losing the war... So it can take even greater advantage in the aftermath.
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Mar 22 '23
When they are mixed up with Russian products, no one can tell.
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u/Rosebunse Mar 23 '23
When the Ukrainians recover them there would be Chinese reference numbers or something. All of the parts can be traced.
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u/Idredric Mar 22 '23
Wait a sec, wasn't everyone reporting that this was a three day trip?
If so, so Xi cut it short after the first day... Interesting....
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u/GymAndGarden Mar 23 '23
Boost? You mean after making Putin his bitch? Lmfao, Russia (Moscovia) belongs to China and everyone fucking knows it.
But at least China gets tourists and makes products that the world can actually name
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u/Arrg-ima-pirate Mar 23 '23
He doesn’t have to publicly say anything if you don’t think Russia is heavily supplied with Chinese weapons and ammo already you’re nuts. Everyone saw when Russia ran out of guns and was giving everyone rusted out AK’s… where do you think they’re getting the guns??? Just because it’s not on the news feed doesn’t mean anything… and if you think governments tell us everything at once you’re nuts
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u/Fun_Ruin29 Mar 23 '23
Look at that banner photo, Xi and puter. No trust, no love, no real help. Xi sees oil on the cheap. Puter knows this but can play a propaganda card.
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u/Ai-Bee Mar 23 '23
Saw the photo but didn't realize they were holding glasses of wine. Thought they were doing that Korean heart sign with their fingers and thought aww that's cute of them, completely forgetting that these are 2 of the most powerful men in the world......
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u/Tiger-Billy Mar 23 '23
That's natural since Xi does not have the gut to experience the sanction from the US. If China gives Russia weapon systems, the US & EU nations will sanction China & CCP high officials, then China can't make the idea that invading Taiwan in the end. Thus, Xi couldn't remark that he would give Russia the Chinese weapon systems. Providing that the US tries sanctions on China, the CCP regime would be collapsed without some special solutions. Xi already knows that, therefore, then he didn't say it.
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u/Mudgruff Mar 23 '23
A new "democratic world order" is laughable... if you can't vote them out without fear of being disappeared then you're not democratic.
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u/atomiccheesegod Mar 22 '23
I remember when China sent some weapons shipments to the Philippines around 2016ish to fight ISIS groups.
There were a few posts on the various military subs of dissatisfied filipino troops showing how poorly made many of the Chinese weapons were.
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Mar 22 '23
We should not say how bad Chinese weapons are, because it will hurt their fragile feelings, and it may cause them to fix problems too. First is sort of OK, but we don’t want the second.
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u/Gunner_E4 Mar 22 '23
I am waiting to hear stories of how inferior these armaments will be, which would explain why they are given away like this.
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Mar 23 '23
No you won’t. When these are mixed up with the beautiful Russian products, no one can tell whose weapon fxxked up.
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u/FirefighterEnough859 Mar 22 '23
I believe Xi said” Yō pìgu shì wǒ de xiànzài”
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u/naslam74 Mar 23 '23
China isn’t stupid. They know their money comes from the west. They won’t jeopardize that. O
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u/autotldr BOT Mar 22 '23
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot)
Their public message on Ukraine, in the joint statement and at the podiums, was a call for peace - but on the basis of a vague plan unveiled by China in February which the U.S. and its allies have dismissed and derided as a stalling tactic, as it includes no call for Russian forces to withdraw from Ukraine.
Putin said China's plan could form the basis for a settlement, but accused Ukraine and its Western backers of keeping the war going, having decided "To fight with Russia to the last Ukrainian."
What Putin and Xi may have discussed and agreed to behind closed doors in Moscow, out of the view of television cameras, will remain a topic of keen interest around the world in the days ahead. After the strong show of support - but no mention of an agreement for China to supply weapons or other lethal aid - Xi left Russia.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine#1 Putin#2 China#3 Russia#4 new#5
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u/LordRaglan1854 Mar 23 '23
There was a lot to unpack from that visit and many ways to spin it, but it looked to me like an upstanding older brother visiting a wayward younger sibling at the police station. Behind the handshakes and gestures of support, cold feelings of disapproval:
"You fucked up bro, and while I'll look after your dog while you're away I'm not bailing you out!"
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u/DoctorCelebro Mar 22 '23
Well duh, there's literally no benefit of China sending weapons only risk