r/worldnews
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u/HarakenQQ
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Mar 18 '23
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Zelenskyy: Russia and its accomplices will be punished for aggression not only against Ukraine, but also against Syria Russia/Ukraine
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/03/18/7394081/1.9k
u/ahearthatslazy Mar 18 '23
Can we all just agree that imperialism is nasty and inhumane and over? Please?
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u/LordJesterTheFree Mar 19 '23
We did that at the end of World War II as a part of the United Nations program for decolonization
Enforcing such an agreement especially against a country with nukes is another question entirely
And it's not like Russia is the only bad guy in this respect ( though it's obviously the most naked attempt in living memory especially due to their annexations of territory)
China has its debt trap diplomacy usa has its foreign entanglements France has it's neocolonialism and the UK... well they're having a bit of a domestic political crisis at the moment but you'd know if Empire is going on the British will be there if they could
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Mar 19 '23
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u/AP2112 Mar 19 '23
They're the closest countries ideologically and culturally. Working closer with them is basic foreign policy, especially with a shift of focus to the Pacific in the next 10 years. I don't know how people are surprised at this.
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u/Ashen_Brad Mar 19 '23
UK keeps trying to negotiate military, trade and immigration treaties with canada, australia and new zealand because colonialism.
Sure the latter 3 countries exist in the current forms because of colonialism, but how is a trade/military/immigration agreement between 4 peer nations (ok maybe 3 and new zealand) seen as colonialism? As far as I can tell, the only beat up is from those that just don't like those countries/don't like the potential power that would create (and entity of over 100 million people with plenty of money and nuclear weapons).
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Mar 19 '23
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u/zJordan Mar 19 '23
Exactly, if anything it is more culturally, and politically tied to the others than Spain is with Latin America for instance.
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u/Imperito Mar 19 '23
That's completely false. The Anglosphere literally exists and there's fairly valid reasons why people feel closer to these countries - its not all a massive fairy tale.
Granted, we should never have left the EU and ties with the other Anglosphere countries should not be prioritised over ties with Europe.
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u/super_derp69420 Mar 19 '23
My country has fallen so very fucking far.
American checking in here. You guys too, huh?
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u/Garrand Mar 19 '23
It's cronyism and fearmongering all the way down.
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u/eaparsley Mar 19 '23
let's not forget corruption. incredible how fucking cheap our politicians are too. people willing to crash a country for fucking chicken feed
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u/careless_swiggin Mar 19 '23
I hope it can be exploited to some benefit. standardize health care standards, combine purchasing power and drug testing, maybe with the larger coverage can stop idiot Tories, conservatives and the likes from privatizing. as long as london doesn't control it
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u/ShadowMercure Mar 19 '23
Yeah maybe, but honestly far-right appeal aside - it’s a fairly good bet. Nothing unites countries like a common identity.
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u/vxx Mar 19 '23
Can't the common identity be something useful like human rights and span across the borders?
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u/ShadowMercure Mar 19 '23
Ideally, but honestly no. One of many common ideologies, maybe - but that’s why we have NATO. Most NATO countries generally favour human rights as a core statute. But they banded together for the sake of peace and military protection. Hence even though Turkey isn’t amazing about human rights, they tolerate it for strategic ends.
Human rights is unfortunately a flimsy alliance-setter. What’s way more lasting is culture and language. The English-speaking commonwealth countries all share many cultural similarities. It makes for easy friendships.
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u/ErraticDragon Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
the UK... well they're having a bit of a domestic political crisis at the moment but you'd know if Empire is going on the British will be there if they could
Technically the sun still doesn't/hasn't set on "The British Empire".
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u/LordJesterTheFree Mar 19 '23
The difference is most of the modern territories actually want to remain British (with the massive exception of the British Indian Ocean territory that I consider one of the cruelest Forced deportations in the world)
This Modern form of British colonialism where colonies repeatedly vote to stay colonies is Child's Play compared to what they used to get up to
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u/Tonkarz Mar 19 '23
These countries you’re referring to don’t get any money from the UK, they aren’t colonies in any real sense.
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u/Erockens Mar 19 '23
Don't forget about Madagascar. Those jerks have a monopoly on the Madagascar movies.
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u/ComradeH_VIE Mar 19 '23
We did that at the end of World War II as a part of the United Nations program for decolonization
Really? The Indochina regions (and the whole South East Asia) begs to differ.
Talk is cheap, only actions matter. And no real drive to remove colonization program took place from the major powers initiatives.
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u/MiloIsTheBest Mar 19 '23
The program proceeded over the course of decades and just because the French had to be dragged kicking and screaming through it doesn't mean it wasn't effective.
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u/Goober_international Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
Most of the world that was still colonised after WWII was decolonised without violent overthrow with notable exceptions like Vietnam and Algeria (both French btw). Not that they were always benevolently granted freedom, it was more of a case of doing the inevitable even if unwillingly.
That btw doesn't mean that decolonisation process wasn't flawed and thag many nations still aren't affected by it and by their colonial history. It was and they do.
But just because there are notable exceptions, it doesn't invalidate the wider process.
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u/ModsAreN0tGoodPeople Mar 19 '23
The Brits were so broke after World War II that they couldn’t afford to keep most of their colonies
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u/Goober_international Mar 19 '23
Credit where credit's due: they could've gone a lot worse about it (see France). But yeah - that's the "doing the inevitable" part.
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u/ascii Mar 19 '23
In theory everyone agreed. In practice, the US and UK decided to topple the democracy in Iran and give all the power to the Shah out of fear the Iranian people would turn to communism. Lots of other terrible decisions like that for which we are still paying the price to this day.
But western interference has at least gotten less blatant and less violent. The naked barbarism of what Russia is doing in Ukraine today would have been unacceptable from a NATO power, even 50 years ago.
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u/Lurnmoshkaz Mar 19 '23
Western powers didn't even have influence in Iran by the early 1960s. Iran went on to being one of the most developed and independent nations in the middle east. People love to cite the 1953 coup as the source of all of Iran's problems when it's fsr from the truth. Also they love to rob Iranians of their agency. When people cite the coup, they never cite the various native factions (clerics, military, tribal chiefs) that were gunning to overthrow their prime minister.
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u/ascii Mar 19 '23
I don't think we disagree about anything here. By the sixties and forward, western influence on Iran has been small. I only meant to say that the west provided critical support in the 1953 coup. Pretty much everything that's happened since has been an internal choice. When I said "Lots of other terrible decisions", I meant terrible foreign policy decisions made in other parts of the world, not Iran specifically.
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u/Jakuchu_Kusonoki Mar 19 '23
The naked barbarism of what Russia is doing in Ukraine today would have been unacceptable from a NATO power, even 50 years ago.
Agent Orange, Napalm, millions dead in Vietnam?
Let's not try to lie about history, in recent times it could be argued to be unacceptable, I guess USA was not quite as brutal in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, where they took lives of millions.
But 50 years ago is long time ago, and NATO has done a lot of fucked up shit.
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u/Feeling-Property-965 Mar 19 '23
Your point is noted and agreed, but for correctness.. millions is not even remotely close to the actual numbers in Lybia, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
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u/ArchmageXin Mar 19 '23
China has its debt trap diplomacy
China not even the majority creditor to Africa?
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u/sahrul099 Mar 19 '23
they keep saying China Debt Trap but if the research it a little bit they would know its not really a debt trap..lol
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Mar 19 '23
People forget that the biggest debts in low income countries are usually Eurobonds—including in infamous debt case studies like Sri Lanka
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u/TransmutedHydrogen Mar 19 '23
Eurobond is just a generic term for foreign securities denominated in local currency.
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u/philly_jake Mar 19 '23
Come on, it’s ridiculous to pretend that the US wasn’t the number one global imperialist for the second half of the last century. China’s “debt traps” are nothing close to Korea, Vietnam, Iraq x2, Latin America, etc.
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u/1maco Mar 19 '23
It’s also equally ridiculous to pretend Russia didn’t effectively have colonial possessions with a total population of 248 million, larger than the population of the US in 1989.
The occupation of the Eastern bloc and Satellite Soviet republics alone makes the Soviets the preeminent Imperial power of the second half of the 20th century
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u/omegonthesane Mar 19 '23
The Soviet Union was never a straightforward Russian empire economically speaking, and it's revisionist to pretend like it was.
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u/redditikonto Mar 19 '23
It absolutely was. All the resources from the colonies were shipped to Moscow and Leningrad.
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u/Major_Wayland Mar 19 '23
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/krrz12/categories_of_supply_in_ussr_more_blue_higher/
And then redistributed to Moscow, Baltic republics, Ukraine, Central Asian republics and Caucasian republics. Guess who got the bad end of the stick? Thats right, core russian provinces. USSR had a LOT of bad things in it, but trying to find a russian "colonialism" among them is laughable.
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u/1maco Mar 19 '23
Not really pretty much all Russian republics had highly specialized economies created to push certain specialized products to the actual industry in Russia.
This was more true in Central Asia than Eastern Europe but basically the entire Soviet/Eastern Bloc. Economy was an built around supplying Russia with resources
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u/hjk813 Mar 19 '23
China was and is an imperialist. Qing Dynasty was not from Central Plain (China) but from Manchuria. They conquered Ming China, Mongolia, Tibet, Xinjiang around the same time European countries colonized the America.
Maritime empires (UK, France and Dutch) ceased their existences after WWII, but not land empires like Russia and China. Even today, both China and Russia have been trying expand their empires with China in the South China Sea, and Russia with Ukraine.
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u/dashrandom Mar 19 '23
Maritime empires (UK, France and Dutch) ceased their existences after WWII
Errrr...
Looks nervously at Anguilla, Bermuda, BVI, Cayman Islands, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Montserrat, Pitcairn, Saint Helena, Ascension Island, Tristan da Cunha, Guadeloupe, Martinique and Reunion Island
... Right, nothing to see here, folks! Move along!
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u/TrumpDesWillens Mar 19 '23
Don't have to look at that. The entirety of west africa minus nigeria is under the extreme influence of france, some call the influence on govt. policies and economies "francafrique."
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u/Roblox838 Mar 19 '23
Dutch
Forgot Aruba, Bonaire, Curaçao, Saba, Sint Maarten and Sint Eustatius, didn't you?
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u/dashrandom Mar 19 '23
No idea about Dutch colonies, that's why I didn't bold it in the quote ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Ravenson420 Mar 19 '23
Eh, some of those aren't really the same as the others - islands that were uninhabited when the British and French showed up (like Bermuda and the Falklands) still being owned by them are way less problematic to still be administrated by them compared to regions that were inhabited (like Anguilla).
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u/Yieldway17 Mar 19 '23
France has one of the biggest EEZ in the world for a reason. Those islands are valuable and France didn't let them go for that exact purpose.
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u/elfedeh Mar 19 '23
And the U.S. Has Puerto Rico, Guam and and a few other territories held hostage with half- rights.
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u/Ghede Mar 19 '23
Not to mention the petrodollar. All trade for oil is done in usd, outside of BRICS nations.
That means foreign companies and banks need usd reserves. The US has exploited that fact many, many times. Especially with the IMF basically pillaging developing nations for corporate America to get those nations access to the US banking system.
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u/What-a-Filthy-liar Mar 19 '23
Post WW2 we all learn that our hubris and greed isnhorrific.
Also make weapons that scare anyone who wants to intervene because of our atrocities.
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u/Sea_Area_3368 Mar 19 '23
Yes America, please pack up all your military bases around the world and leave
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u/sharkbelly Mar 19 '23
I live in hope that Bush and the monsters responsible for the war in Iraq face some justice, too. Instead, a Harvard+Yale GITMO JAG who “advocated” for detainees and broke their hunger strike is running my state. It will be this nation’s never-ending shame if this guy goes national.
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u/downvote_dinosaur Mar 19 '23
No because imperialism is cool and fun when it happened in the distant past or is re-branded as unification. The Vikings were cool! The mongols were cool! The Chinese are cool!
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u/DynaSower Mar 20 '23
Any form of government or control created and run by humans is going to eventually become horrible. It's not imperialism or capitalism or anything like that. It just people that need to subvert, subjugate and dominate others always end up in control no matter what kind of system it is.
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u/Philosophleur Mar 19 '23
The United States exists and still participates quite actively in the overthrow democratic governments for disagreeing with neoliberalism all of the time. The US has military bases all across the globe. The sun literally doesn't set on the US empire. The US exploits the developing world, exploiting the international working class's labor, extracting wealth from poor countries, and destroying anyone and anyplace that dares to oppose capitalism, neoliberalism, or US hegemony.
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u/Sea_Area_3368 Mar 19 '23
On the one hand yes, on the other hand my understanding of neoliberalism is that it started in the 80s under reagan, and the US has been doing the things you describe for way longer. For example panama 1968, guatemala 1954, etc. Etc.
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u/macross1984 Mar 18 '23
More reason Putin will hunker down in his bunker and hopefully never leave.
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u/Onedayatat1m3 Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
It’s a big conundrum.
When you give tyrants a stepping off ramp, they will sometimes take it. The Saudi’s have hosted a vast array of former leaders from Africa, Middle East, and South Asia. They get to live with their stolen wealth in some remote palace.
The problem with Putin is that there probably isn’t a country that would want to host him.
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u/too_much_feces Mar 19 '23
Are any of them nearly as high profile as Putin is at this point though? It would be like if Hitler just decided to retire.
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u/socialistrob Mar 19 '23
I’m sure there are countries that would take Putin but I don’t think he’s interested in it for now. He still thinks he can “win” in Ukraine and come out with at least the Donbas.
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u/LukeGoldberg72 Mar 19 '23
The oligarchs backing him should be arrested if they set foot in any foreign countries. No one seems to mention they’re actually the ones responsible for keeping him in power by leveraging their influential criminal networks.
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u/Si-Jo0159 Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
This is it now.
With the ICC arrest warrant he has 3 choices:
War till he dies, Lose the war and die, Or be arrested and put in jail till he dies.
I know which one I'd go for. Sad that the arrest is unlikely to happen while he still leads Russia.
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u/Morewokethanur
Mar 19 '23
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Zelensky is now going to boycott the US for aggression in syria?
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u/JgorinacR1 Mar 19 '23
Crazy how far down in the comments I had to go to see someone bring up how the US also bombed Syria
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Mar 19 '23
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Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 20 '23
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u/Impressive-Yak1389 Mar 19 '23
Ukraine became a country in 1991. It's been a country for just over 31 years. What 30+ year old policies, EXACTLY, are you referring to?
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u/Lord_Frederick Mar 19 '23
People don’t seem to realize that saying the US has instigated this Ukraine war utterly dismisses Ukrainian efforts to achieve European integration. For Ukraine, Euromaidan was never about NATO it was about the EU.
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u/Numerous_Brother_816 Mar 19 '23
Maybe.
The NATO Expansion thing is something Russia has claimed is a provocation for years, but they forget that the ex-Warsaw Pact countries are the most eager NATO members because of how the Russians treated them during the soviet era.
Maybe it could have been done differently by having them join NATO and including them in Article 5, and at the same time demilitarizing the area with only a joint symbolic NATO force present. But I’m fairly certain that Russia would still claim that NATO is threatening them precisely because the Kremlin doesn’t see those countries as independent and never have.
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u/Hungry_Bus_9695 Mar 19 '23
None of this matters at all though. Who cares what NATO is doing, or if they broke some handshake deal 30 years ago. Ukraine is an independent country it can do whatever it wants, they have full agency over their actions. Some much implicit racism in this discussion that the only reason Eastern Europeans do anything is because the US tricked them into doing it. Russia has no right to force them todo anything just because they ran a bunch of them over with tanks in the 40s
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u/Numerous_Brother_816 Mar 19 '23
It’s not racism at all. If anything it’s a backlash against how the Eastern European countries were treated by the soviets.
With that said, I think all countries that don’t have nuclear weapons and want to be part of the economic globalized market are very beholden to the US. Some more, some less.
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u/kooshans Mar 19 '23
Oh you mean the geopolitics game? The exact same things Russia has also been doing for those 30+ years? Only difference is, they do that ON TOP of invading their neighbours and killing, torturing and raping children.
Your reasoning is basically the same as when trying to convince your brother at the age of 30+ to stop ruining his life with a heroin addiction, and this brother saying to you: In our early twenties we both did a few lines of coke, so who are you to judge??
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u/Less_Tennis5174524 Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
This is Russian propaganda talking points. Russia keeps insisting that the US is out to get them and therefor all the shit their do to their neighbors is justified as defense. In reality Russia is just an imperialistic asshole that can't stop attacking and provoking their neighbors.
I'm danish, Russia literally sent a bomber over Bornholm when our government visited there. What logical reason is there for that other than to provoke?
The truth is that everyone is joining NATO because its security against Russia. No one has any interest in fighting Russia and the last 30 years of diplomacy has been about linking the western economies with Russia's to secure peace. Now Russia has pissed that away and their oil and gas sales are falling fast.
Edit: fuck off Russian trolls. Putin has now sent 200.000+ young Russians to an early grave for no reason. He will use you as cannon fodder and let the future of the country die just to fuel his ego. Russia was on an upwards trajectory until he decided to invade Crimea and now Ukraine. He could have retired and let the country reach a western standard of living within a decade.
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u/DefinitelyFrenchGuy Mar 19 '23
People don’t seem to realize that the US has instigated this Ukraine war as well.
No they haven't. Stop parroting Russian propaganda, the US is not to blame for this, solely Russia and Russia alone.
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u/Topsy_Kretzz Mar 19 '23
Yup, and you guys loooove playing hero. Thing is, you guys are Homelander, not Captain America.
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u/SupportVectorMikuma Mar 19 '23
Yep, I was genuinely confused by the comment. Thought he was trying to be objective and also taking a swipe at the US.
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u/LukeGoldberg72 Mar 19 '23
General Dempsey, General Wesley Clark, Sec of State Hillary Clinton, and General Flynn have all stated clearly that US allies are backing the same groups in the Near East that they’re publicly against, and that they’re being used (with complicity of the US policymakers- see the longer YouTube clip) as geopolitical tools against noncompliant govs in the region.
General Wesley Clark even stated that policy makers had the intent to regime change/ destabilize 7 non compliant regimes and used the events of 2001 as a pretext to get the public on board with the interventions :
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u/enkay999 Mar 19 '23
Finally some people with sense here.. Others, who are Syrian, mentioned this, & got accused of being "supporters of Bashar Al Asad"
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u/rho65 Mar 19 '23
but the world doesnt give a fuck about syria
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u/westonsammy Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
I'm not sure what you're talking about, Syria was dominating headlines for years after the civil war started. The US got directly involved, Turkey got directly involved, Russia got directly involved. Most major powers on the planet had something to say about it or some kind of involvement.
I think what you mean to say is that the world doesn't support the Syrians like they do the Ukranians, and that's because the situation in Syria is completely and absolutely fucked up compared to Ukraine.
First and foremost, the situation in Syria is an internal dispute. It's a civil war. As a base rule it is so much messier to get involved, as a foreigner, in a civil war than it is a conventional one between 2 nations. Secondly, there's no unified Syrian opposition. Hell some of them even oppose each other. There are so many completely independent groups with independent goals on the opposition side that it's basically impossible to rally behind them as a whole. Unless you're fine with supporting and supplying ISIS successor groups and other crazy extremists.
In the Ukrainian war, there's 1 clear good guy, 1 clear bad guy. In the Syrian civil war there's 1 clear bad guy, and then a giant bag of marbles with the whole spectrum of morality and ethicality inside it.
Also the Syrian civil war is 12 years ongoing at this point. You can't expect it to keep dominating headlines for 12 years straight. After a point people just become numb to it.
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u/rolltideamerica Mar 19 '23
No one gave a fuck about Ukraine two years ago either. I wonder why they’re getting all this support and Syria isn’t.
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u/Cytwytever Mar 19 '23
Syria isn't the breadbasket for much of Europe and Africa. Syria also is inconsequential as an oil or gas exporter compared to Russia, much of which flows through Ukraine. No one in Syria that I know of is sabotaging their 1 suspected nuclear power plant, compared to the Russians intentionally bombing and depriving coolant capacity to Ukrainian plants. I mean, I could go on, but those are a few reasons that leap to mind for outsiders to be more concerned about Ukraine than Syria right now. Sorry for any mistakes here, my research was not exhaustive.
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u/gamershadow Mar 19 '23
It’s in Europe and closer to home. People care more about things when it can effect them. Russia also originally planned to conquer more countries and move westward into Europe.
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u/fleshdropcolorjeans Mar 19 '23
People payed plenty of attention to Syria when it was new. It died out after a few years. Ukraine has only been happening for a year so people haven't gotten bored yet.
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u/aschapm Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
I mean, the largest* European country invaded the 7th largest, this one may stay in the news for a while
*by population
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u/Antisymmetriser Mar 19 '23
You mean, the largest country in the world invaded the largest country fully in Europe?
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u/Electrox7 Mar 19 '23
Syria wasn't just a flat out invasion in a conflict between good vs evil. There were like, 5 different armies, all with different goals and supporters, fighting eachother. Also, these armies kinda just popped up within the country itself, not entirely from a foreign nation. Ukraine is just much easier to follow and understand and conforms to your most generic war scenario.
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u/SHURIK01 Mar 19 '23
Because Ukraine was invaded by a belligerent state actor with the intent of making a land grab. EU/NATO members want to ensure a Ukrainian victory and prevent Russia from setting a precedent in Europe where territorial disputes could become a valid casus belli for future armed conflicts.
Unlike Europe, the Middle East had no such security “agreement” and multiple wars for territory had occurred since WW2. Besides that, the conflict in Syria is a civil war, so it’s not the best comparison to make when talking about Ukraine.
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u/XTheFounderX Mar 19 '23
I try to give a fuck about whatever fucked over situation I hear about in the world. The main difference to me is the number of total casualties. From what I've seen, this year has been one of the most intense war casualty periods that has happened since WW2. I'm not trying to lessen all the other terrible shit that has/and is happening. If I am wrong in justification, please tell me why.
Also. This war involves potential use of big bombs called nukes that can erase everything we know pretty quick.
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u/JezebelRaven Mar 18 '23
No one was taking this man and his people seriously when the war started. Look at them a year later. Whatever the future holds Ukraine can be proud.
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u/Habalaa Mar 18 '23
I respect him but you just cant take "Russia will be punished for aggression against Syria" seriously
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u/hitchenwatch Mar 19 '23
Tbf the Ukranians have shot down and killed a number of Russian pilots who waged a terror campaign of Syrian civilians in the late 2010s and its only a year into this conflict.
Obviously Zelensky is likely referencing the ICC warrant for Putin but this could have the potential to open the floodgates for more complaints.
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u/DavidlikesPeace Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 20 '23
He and the Ukrainian nation have a better track record at killing Russian generals than anybody else. I wouldn't assume the best but nor would I the worst.
Ukraine is motivated to war aggressively with Russia. Unlike many in the west who still yearn for appeasement, peace and isolationism, many Ukrainians want a war to the finish. If anybody had the skill and will to strike hard at Russians, it would be Ukraine.
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u/Zerole00 Mar 19 '23
I mean if we're being serious, at this point Ukraine has likely killed most of the Wagner monsters that were terrorizing Syria
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u/Throbbing_Furry_Knot Mar 19 '23
Because Russia has already been punished? Ukraine and the west have caused a likely permanent amount of damage to the Russian military and economy, it will be very difficult if not impossible for Russia to rebuild what it had...
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u/_greyknight_ Mar 19 '23
This is like punching yourself in the face, hurting your hand in the process, and saying that your face caused a likely permanent amount of damage to your hand.
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u/Throbbing_Furry_Knot Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
Punishment for aggression against Syria, not Ukraine. I'd only consider Russia truly punished for Ukraine once they lose Crimea and Putin is gone from power.
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Mar 19 '23
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u/RK-98 Mar 19 '23
In case you didn’t see this, those sanctions were imposed days after Assad called Zelensky a clown..
https://twitter.com/kevorkalmassian/status/1636438255708061714?s=46&t=KYbI1PIYq1NR5ydytWqC8g
I’m not an Assad fan, but I just find the timing of these sanctions funny af.
Edit, I agree with you, I think Zelensky was stupid for still recognizing Assad is head of government of Syria.
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u/Hungry_Bus_9695 Mar 19 '23
I think this is in reference to the many many many many many many many war crimes assad and russia have committed in syria
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u/MeisterX Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
I'm just sad that they've lost so many men as well as civilians and I hope that should they win (and I'm hoping they do!) they're able to regain some semblance of normal and their country isn't just destroyed.
There's some reason to hope but there's a chance it's a pyrrhic victory.
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u/MNnocoastMN Mar 19 '23
Ok, what about Israel? They're attacking Syria too.
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u/monkierr Mar 19 '23
The US as well
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u/ihhhbbnjjjhv Mar 19 '23
“The US has conducted its own review of itself and has found itself not guilty” carry on now
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u/ElliotPhoenix Mar 19 '23
Syria just a play ground for US, Iran, Russia,Israel, Turkey, France and many more countries.
Almost every country done crimes against local peoples for their own benefits.
Nobody wants end the war there
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u/bowingmonk Mar 19 '23
I’m not a fan of Israel at all. In fact I’m probably as pro-Palestine as one could possibly be. But as a Syrian, the actions of Israel(in Syria) and Russia are not comparable. The Russians leveled our cities and genocided thousands and thousands of civilians. They supported mercenaries, like the Wagner group, that strolled around Syrian cities and raping women and murdering Syrian civilians with sledgehammers(search up Hamadi Bouta). Israel strikes Iranian assets and military targets. I have ALOT of family in Damascus, where Israel usually strikes, and I’m telling you Russia is the greater evil(when it comes to Syria) by a factor of a million.
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Mar 19 '23
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u/iuuznxr Mar 19 '23
but it is rare for them to target residential areas
Straight from your source.
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u/bowingmonk Mar 19 '23
I, a Syrian, don’t speak for Syrians, but you do? First off the article you posted literally says it’s rare for them to target residential buildings. And second off I never said I supported it. It’s all bad. I want everyone out of Syria, including Russia, Iran, Israel, US, Turkey. Everyone needs to leave Syria alone. My point was Russia is a far greater evil than Israel, when it comes to Syria. By a long shot.
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u/dxq311 Mar 19 '23
At this point he’s just saying whatever it takes to get more headlines lol
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u/Deletrious26 Mar 19 '23
It's crazy that keeping in social media headlines is a legitimate and necessary military strategy.
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u/dingodoyle Mar 19 '23
Why did he forget Iraq? I’ll take this ICC business seriously when there are arrest warrants for Bush, Cheney, CIA directors and the government lawyers that signed off on torture.
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u/ptstearman Mar 19 '23
I could be mistaken but I believe the only person to get in trouble was the actual whistleblower who came out about the CIA torturing methods.
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u/mrappbrain Mar 19 '23
It's crazy how the US gets a free pass for doing almost anything. They get to invade and war with other sovereign nations with impunity, while still seemingly being hailed as the defenders of freedom and virtue. But hey, it's only white lives that matter I guess.
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u/vidivicivini Mar 19 '23
Ukraine prepares second front in Syria confirmed.
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u/CantoniaCustoms Mar 19 '23
Wait until the Sun Never sets on the UK empire.
No not the United Kingom, we're talking about Ukraine
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u/dead_roach Mar 19 '23
America good, Russia bad😬
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u/AbanEcho Mar 19 '23
This is why good or bad value shouldn't be decide by majority opinion, but must be base on true value of what is wrong and right, there must be some neutral entity to judge that, so there's no if America do the same thing, it's good but if Russia do, it's bad.
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u/WindChimesAreCool Mar 19 '23
This is a joke right? In Syria, Russia has supported the government of Syria against rebels and ISIS. In Ukraine, Russia supports separatists against the government of Ukraine. While the US is on the opposite side in both cases as well.
How anyone genuinely believes this has anything to do with the morality of aggression is beyond me.
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Mar 19 '23
This needs to be upvoted more because there are a lot of people in this sub that need to learn something. Being Biden’s ally doesn’t make you right. Russia was invited into Syria by the Syrian government to help them fight against the US propped up ISIS.
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u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN Mar 19 '23
I think everyone should realize that he probably isn't talking about aggression towards the Syrian government, as they are essentially Russian allies.
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u/uppermiddleclasss Mar 19 '23
? That makes no sense. Russia is supporting the UN recognized government of Syria. The consistent position, if you support Ukraine's territorial integrity, would be exactly what Russia is doing in Syria. It's Turkey and the US that have carved up Syria.
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u/MTknowsit Mar 19 '23
Can someone update me on the peace talks, or is obliterating countries and killing as many people as possible just our goal now?
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u/ChefBoyAreWeFucked Mar 19 '23
Nobody is going to get punished for what was done to Syria, except maybe Assad, eventually, because he's stuck there. Even Saudi Arabia won't be there to bail him out, because he's "one of them drinkin' Muslims".* Hell, look at the coverage of the earthquake that hit Turkey and Syria — nearly no mention of helping Syria, ever. "That would be too difficult."
*Alawism is a sect of Islam, but it's closer to Christianity than most other Muslim sects. They believe in transubstantiation, and drink wine in honor of Ali.
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u/kettle3 Mar 19 '23
Why stop on Syria? There were also Chechnya, Georgia, etc?
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u/Thedaniel4999 Mar 19 '23
I’m pro-Ukraine but Jesus Christ guys read up on what happened in Chechnya. Chechnya literally started the war that ended its existence by provoking Russia by invading Dagestan (which is part of Russia) and then going on a terror rampage in major cities. It’s the most cut and dry case when by Putin’s presidency, Chechen militias were radical enough to make the Taliban blush.
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u/vstromua Mar 19 '23
You are describing a very russian view of the Second Russo-Chechen war. There is a reason it's called the Second.
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u/Thedaniel4999 Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
Yes, it was the second. Chechnya won the first. Chechens militias then crossed into Dagestan giving Putin the war he wanted with a perfect excuse
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u/Flat_Neighborhood882 Mar 19 '23
Syrian government invited Russia to help them against the U.S-created rebels/ISIS.
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u/Topsy_Kretzz Mar 19 '23
Good shit. Perhaps we can take on the US as well for bombing and killing innocent civilians during their retreat out of Afghanistan? No?
Thought so.
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u/Firm_Judge1599 Mar 19 '23
syria? the country closely allied with russia and who asked them to help with their isis problem?
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u/xwing_n_it Mar 18 '23
Cool. Unrelated question, but when is the US going to stop occupying Syria?
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Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 25 '23
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u/ScaryShadowx Mar 19 '23
No, don't you understand? Separatist groups that fight against governments who are in opposition to the US are good, separatist groups the fight against governments who are in favor of the US are bad. Since Syria goes against US interests, they are obviously bad and the US is the good guy for sponsoring armed rebellion in there, unlike when Russia does it in Ukraine which is evil!
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u/postinthemachine Mar 19 '23
Watch and see if you don't have a heart. The whole world let Syria down, ignored it and pretended it was not happening. Shame on all of us.
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u/randyboozer Mar 19 '23
Punished how? He's already fighting a war on his own soil. I don't think it is the time for him to commit forces to Syria.
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u/aaden08 Mar 19 '23
Ukraine didn't seem to care about Syria before they were invaded either
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u/SitonmeFacez Mar 19 '23
Stfu. If we were to trace back the war records, Russia would stand a saint in front of the USA.
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u/SeaworthinessFew2418 Mar 19 '23
Hmm, funny, didint the Russians enter Syria after the Syrian government asked them to help them... I mean the Americans went in to fight against the governments forces...
Zelensky is shooting himself in the foot if he on one hand supports the rebel forces in Syria over the sovereign government of Syria, well on the other hand doesn't acknowledge the Ukrainian separatist forces in Donbass and their rights.
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Mar 18 '23
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u/garlicroastedpotato Mar 19 '23
It's not nice, but the Assad government is the legitimate government of Syria and always has. US backing of Al'Qaeda linked rebels does not make a government legitimate.
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u/Mizral Mar 18 '23
Is it not true that Russia helps to finance the Assad government and that their troops protected them?
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u/An_Average_Andy Mar 19 '23
I would say the Russian bombings on civilians have been very deliberate.
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u/shrekerecker97 Mar 19 '23
Didn’t the US fuck up a Russian unit in Syria ?
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u/Cyclonit Mar 19 '23
You might be referring to the battle of Kasham. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham
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u/Candid_Indication_45 Mar 19 '23
I’m in. Let’s add to the list. How about Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria? Let’s start respecting borders yeah?
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u/autotldr BOT Mar 18 '23
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 50%. (I'm a bot)
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: against#1 Russia#2 people#3 international#4 Syria#5