r/worldnews
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u/Quantum_II
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Mar 06 '23
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Russia's Wagner chief warns of frontline collapse if forced to retreat from Bakhmut Russia/Ukraine
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-wagner-chief-warns-frontline-collapse-if-forced-retreat-bakhmut-2023-03-06/5.0k
u/tuctrohs Mar 06 '23
he complained that most of the ammunition that his forces were promised by Moscow in February had not yet been shipped.
"For now, we are trying to figure out the reason: is it just ordinary bureaucracy or a betrayal," Prigozhin said
Ordinary bureaucracy, betrayal, or the faltering capacity of production and supply systems. I don't know.
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u/a_white_american_guy Mar 06 '23
A military commander is publicly questioning if the country he’s fighting for is betraying him. That bodes well for the war effort.
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u/mead_beader Mar 06 '23
As usual Perun has an excellent breakdown. TL;DR It's pretty common that the Russian regular army publicly shits on Wagner Group and vice versa, and rumors of active sabotage aren't unheard of. This, even though they're supposedly on the same side, because most Russian soldiers, mercenaries, and military organizers aren't on anybody's "side" except their own.
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u/AGVann Mar 06 '23
It's a classic play out of the authoritarian dictator's playbook. The military are the only people who can unseat you, so you keep them happy. If you can't keep them happy, you keep them divided.
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u/mead_beader Mar 06 '23
Yep. And, if anyone in high military command starts looking genuinely good at their job you get rid of them because now they're a threat. Like a lot of the things from the dictator's playbook, this all works pretty well unless your country faces a real problem, in which case the whole shit-balloon blows up in your face in totally unfixable fashion.
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u/TheBostonPops Mar 06 '23
Lots of faulty windows these days in Russia.
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u/mead_beader Mar 06 '23
You're always paranoid. But it's a dangerous game, because you can't afford to ignore powerful people who might want to get rid of you, but the more of them you start to kill, the more likely it is that some of the others will want to get rid of you.
And, from what I've heard, you obsess over that video of Gaddafi being dragged bloody and wounded out of hiding and stabbed up the ass with a bayonet, begging for his life.
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u/CrazyCanuckBiologist Mar 06 '23
if anyone in high military command starts looking genuinely good at their job you get rid of them because now they're a threat.
One of the reasons Shoigu is Minister of Defence is because he is ethnically Tuvan (by his father, his mother was an ethnic Russian born in Ukraine, specifically Donbas). Tuvans are a small ethnic group on the border with Mongolia. Russia is racist af, so Shoigu is unlikely to command loyalty from other aspects of Russian society, even if he had a firm grip on the regular military (regular military standing in contrast to paramilitary internal security troops, intelligence agencies, private military companies [although he has one of his own now apparently], etc.)
Yes, I know I use too many brackets and parentheses...
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u/kurtuwarter Mar 06 '23
Ironically, Wagner's group are willingly hired, wheras Russian army is mobilized, often against will and even as punishment(you hate Russian govt.? so u go frontlines now), ofcourse regular army will likely sabotage itself. I know I would.
With that said, while regular Russians get imprisoned for saying something like "I dont think govt. does the right thing", wagner's leader gets away with any shit he says. He does things for money and influence, wheras Russian govt. officials only know, how to buy French mansions for stolen tank money.
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u/cchutney Mar 06 '23
Wait, aren't they basically gang pressing convicts into Wagner? I mean sure, most anything is better than Russian prisons, but I doubt their motivation is through the roof for the most part.
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u/hikingmike Mar 06 '23
He is the owner of a private company apparently expecting a large portion of the company’s needed resources to come gifted directly from the government.
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u/JuliusCeejer Mar 06 '23
Not an unfounded expectation when that's been the case for the last decade or two. They've been Russia's gangsters, willing to do what the Army can't, for a long time. They're just mad that now that they're in a real fight they aren't equipped to the teeth like they're used to
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u/barkerdog Mar 06 '23
He is not Russian military personnel. He founded the Wagner group, mercenaries who will go just about anywhere to fight. They usually do Russia’s business though. This guy used to be Putin’s chef. Look him up.
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u/Puppyl Mar 06 '23
okay but he isn't wrong that he is a millitary commander fighting for Russia
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u/bluesmaker Mar 06 '23
Wow. His chef? I will need to look him up. That’s one hell of a career change.
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u/Raoul_Duke9 Mar 06 '23
They call him that because he used to manage event catering for putin. That's all.
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u/DrDerpberg Mar 06 '23
Which, of course, was certainly a grift to get rich.
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u/riptide81 Mar 06 '23 edited Mar 06 '23
Yup, he got extremely lucrative government supply contracts. Like calling the CEO of Aramark a chef.
I always wonder what about his background made him seem valuable to Putin as someone to funnel money through. Certainly nothing screams military strategist. He had been to prison, maybe he had mafia ties? I suppose taking a relative nobody and making them rich is one way to build loyalty.
Edit: just saw the posts about Putin’s grandfather and culinary background. Could be a personal affinity. I suppose food service people do have that ability to get extremely close to power while blending in.
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u/generic-username9067 Mar 06 '23 edited Mar 06 '23
Putin's
greatgrandfather was Lenin's chef at his country estate I think. And Stalin's apparently: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiridon_Putin23
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u/muricabrb Mar 06 '23
Putin worked at the famous Hotel Astoria, where he once served Grigori Rasputin. Rasputin gave Putin a gold ruble as he was impressed with the cuisine and noticed the similarity between their names.
This man's had an interesting life.
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u/FawltyPython Mar 06 '23
If you read Washington or Napoleon, all they ever did was write letters complaining about not having enough ammo or equipment.
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u/Hypnokratic Mar 06 '23
True, however George never claimed to be in charge of the 2nd best army in the world, and Napoleon was actually competent.
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u/jjb1197j Mar 06 '23
The Kremlin just doesn’t give a fuck anymore. They’re using Bahkmut as a distraction until they can figure out how to explain the inevitable defeat of this war.
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u/AdUpstairs7106 Mar 06 '23
I disagree, the Kremlin wants/needs to win in Bahkmut to show the entire world the Russian Army can achieve success on the battlefield.
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u/twofortomatoes Mar 06 '23
I don’t think any outcome would really be a victory there at this point. 50,000 casualties is an entire wars worth of losses, really.
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u/Gorvoslov Mar 06 '23
The real question at this point is "Will they lose more troops trying to take a city than it's pre-war population?"
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u/porncrank Mar 06 '23
That doesn't matter one iota to Putin and his allies. To a democratic country with any regard for human life, of course that would be unacceptable. To Russia, that is perfectly fine. The only thing that matters is they move the pins on their map where they want. They'd throw another 100k into the grinder if it got them the city.
That's why we need to deny them the city. Make them send another 100k. And then push them back. Give Ukraine absolutely everything they need. Our help has been slow and exploratory. It's time to turn everything up to 100% and change the story of this war to one of complete and total failure for the Russians. They should be denied another inch. Every month they should lose swaths of Ukrainian land until Ukraine is made whole.
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u/palegate Mar 06 '23
Not the entire world, only their domestic audience in Russia.
The world knows that Russia is making a giant mistake sacrificing this many resources for an arguably insignificant place.
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u/Expensive-Document41 Mar 06 '23
Problem is (for them) that if the Ukrainians make them pay a Bahkmut price for every urban area going forward, there won't be a man, woman or child left in Russia by year's end.
I'm aware Bahkmut was a meat grinder for both sides, and nobody relishes the idea of this war continuing and claiming more lives, but the casualty reports for Russia and Wagner out of Bahkmut have been blistering. They can't take every piece of the 4 regions at this price.
To quote American Revolutionary War general Nathanial Green after the Battle of Bunker Hill:
"I wish we could sell them another hill at the same price"
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u/jjb1197j Mar 06 '23
That “victory” is looking more like a lost cause each day. They lost 60k men and dozens of precious vehicles for barely partial control of a strategically useless town.
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u/NitroSyfi Mar 06 '23
The entire world already knows Bahkmut is a failure for the Russians even if they win it.
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u/TomTorquemada Mar 06 '23
PLUS the Ukranians have seen this Russian play coming for months. I wonder what surprises they have left behind for the incoming invaders?
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u/YoshiSan90 Mar 06 '23
Just letting them exhaust their ammo and men. It's easier to defend then attack, so let the Russians attack first and burn the men and ammo. Those resources are depleted and can't be used for defense. Once the Russians are exhausted there will be a huge counter offensive.
They don't really have western tanks yet, but the Marders and Bradleys have anti tank missiles and they've been getting tons of other assorted armor. All those soldiers that have been training overseas are going to be decisive.
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u/Constrained_Entropy Mar 06 '23
Once the Russians are exhausted there will be a huge counter offensive.
Hopefully to liberate Mariupol and cut the "land bridge" to Crimea in half.
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u/Justforthenuews Mar 06 '23
Achieving a success is not likely going to be meaningful for much unless it’s so decisive that other countries are literally impressed, which is very much almost impossible. They better have more than that planned with this or they’re fucked.
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u/NotSeren Mar 06 '23
It’s kinda nuts that Russia fucked up so severely, the entire Cold War was predicated on Russia being a powerful super power and in recent media depicting a Cold War reignition Russia was always understood to be this all powerful force, yet here it can’t even take Ukraine, like Christ a live I don’t think anyone could’ve predicted how poorly this would go
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u/Bay1Bri Mar 06 '23
The USSR was more powerful an adversary than modern Russia, by a wide margin. Though society certainly not as powerful as we thought
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u/2Nails Mar 06 '23
In part due to the fact Ukraine being part of the USSR was a very valuable asset, producing steel and other raw materials, building the Moskva, and being potential conscripts.
Russia could have at best a fraction of the might of USSR.
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u/asshat123 Mar 06 '23
The cold war was also predicated on Russia and the US both having and being willing to use nuclear weapons. Russia still has nuclear weapons. They may not be able to win a conventional war against any regional power anymore, but they still have nuclear weapons and that gives them power at the negotiation table.
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u/Lord_Abort Mar 06 '23
At the fall of the Iron curtain, their ICBM arsenal was inspected and found to be in severe disarray. About half were suspected to fail to launch, let alone successfully target and detonate. Parts were missing and suspected stolen.
Add to all this the type of rot typical of an authoritarian state, and I don't think most people focused on international relations with east Europe were too surprised.
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u/Secunda_Son Mar 06 '23
The institute of war put out a report last week that subtlety derided Russia for this battle in Bakhmut. The city is basically rubble and ash at this point and it's strategically unimportant. The amount of lives and equipment they've lost to win this pyrrhic victory may as well be a defeat either way.
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u/vahntitrio Mar 06 '23
I admittedly haven't followed the day-to-day of the war, so I had to find Bakhmut on a map and immediately said to myself "if this small city 50 miles from the border has become critical to Russia they are closer to collapse than I thought."
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u/remotelove Mar 06 '23
I have followed almost daily and I believed it was going to fall weeks ago. Bakhmut is an interesting place and has traditionally been a place of more strategic importance in the past. Yes, there are a number of important crossroads there, but it's more a symbolic win for Russia at this point. That is my opinion, anyway.
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u/ScreamingAtaMailbox Mar 06 '23
It's a sunk cost fallacy on the part of the Russians. There are pinning resources which the have and continue to attrite in levels far beyond the towns operational significance. It's a costly campaign for Ukraine, but disastrous for Russia.
For instance, had Russia held forces in reserve instead of immediately throwing them at Bahkmut or Vuhledar, their offensive in Northern Luhansk may have been more effective. As it stands, it appears to be fizzling due to their inability to provide adequate concentration.
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u/thaaag Mar 06 '23
Are you suggesting Ruzzia may have made a tactical boo-boo? I'm glad I'm sitting down; I'm shocked I tell you.
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u/Flextt Mar 06 '23
It's critical for Wagner as it can expand its mining operations for salt and gypsum around Bakhmut.
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u/AbuDaddy69 Mar 06 '23
Given how the war is going, I think salt might be the one thing the russians dont have a shortage of
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u/Its_apparent Mar 06 '23
I don't agree with that assessment. While it's not a major city, its location is important to both sides because it's a point from which offensives can be supplied and launched. The ground, itself, isn't vital, but the infrastructure is. This war has cranked up the propaganda, but the basics of warfare still apply. Ukraine will have a longer way, and a harder time supplying its front lines if/when Bakhmut falls. Russia will be able to immediately supply its troops in the area, if it falls, and will have a starting point for possible future offensives. A lot of people in the threads that don't closely monitor the war seem to think Ukraine is holding Bakhmut only to bleed the Russians, and that isn't the case. While it's certainly a side effect, Ukranian leadership understands the significance of the battle, and it's a big deal to them, too. Its fall won't mark the end of the war, or anything, and it'll be used as a propaganda piece, for sure, but it does have actual strategic value.
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u/porncrank Mar 06 '23
That may be true except for one thing: if they can simply say "we captured another Ukrainian city" they can tell the story they are making progress. And that matters to people.
We need to deny them that story. We need to leave them empty handed.
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u/ForShotgun Mar 06 '23
Honestly, I don't think it'll matter that much, if they celebrate Bakhmut then commence Bakhmut 2, then 3, then 4, they'll just collapse. It was never worth it, a second one with higher morale will be just as worthless.
Imagine going from taking over the whole country in three days to spending your entire war effort on one worthless city, it's fucking wild.
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u/captainpoopoopeepee Mar 06 '23
I wish Prigozhin would collapse 💕
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u/Walking72 Mar 06 '23
In the end he'll have to drink from the same cup as Kadyrov. Cheers.
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u/Asphodelmercenary Mar 06 '23
Maybe this is Putin’s “off-ramp.” Wagner lost the war, not him. He could say they failed.
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u/T0mbaker Mar 06 '23
Putin made this guy...he will unmake him when he is no longer useful or tries to grab too much power.
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u/account_not_valid Mar 06 '23
Putin - "We were betrayed! The CIA and NATO placed Yevgeny Prigozhin in that position, in order to undermine the Russian Federation."
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u/clarity_scarcity Mar 06 '23
He could just declare “victory” at any time and end it. “Got all the nazis, job done”
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u/Actaeus86 Mar 06 '23
The world can only hope Wagner retreats and Russia collapses. Best possible outcome in the short term.
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u/Timmonaise Mar 06 '23
So see what’s happening here is what happens when your military is corrupt and rotting from the inside. He talked shit about the people who are supposed to send him ammo, so now they want him to fail so they are holding up the ammo.
When there is no order or respected chain of command and all actors are trying to impress one person (and betray everyone else) the entire system collapses. See: history.
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u/AusCan531 Mar 06 '23
If they retreat from Bakhmut, the Russian forces will collapse. If they don't retreat from Bakhmut, the Russian forces will collapse.
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u/008Zulu Mar 06 '23
The only question is how many able-bodied meatshields they want afterwards.
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u/jjb1197j Mar 06 '23 edited Mar 06 '23
Exactly this. What happens if they DO take Bahkmut? They’ll simply encounter another heavily fortified line of defense and they can’t just keep wasting thousands of lives and tanks for towns with zero impact. Ukraine is bleeding them dry slowly. What is Putin’s long term goal here?
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u/yuje Mar 06 '23
From what I understand, Ukraine’s defense lines are anchored along major cities, towns, and urban areas. This is because they can’t match Russia in armor or artillery, so fighting in the open steppe isn’t a good idea. The Donbas region is one of the most industrialized areas in Ukraine, because of the mines in the area, so Ukraine built a series of defense lines based on and connecting their major cities.
Russia broke through the first two with the surprise invasion, and Bakhmut sits along the third. There’s a fourth defense line behind Bakhmut along the Slovyansk-Krematorsk line, but behind that is a bunch of open steppe. Not that they can’t build more defense lines there, but it would be more challenging to defend.
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u/Elitericky Mar 06 '23
They can keep wasting lives, the only way it will stop if theirs a internal revolt within Russia. Even if ukraine pushed Russia outsides it’s borders Putin will continue the war effort.
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u/realnrh Mar 06 '23
If Russia gets pushed completely out of Ukraine and continues attacking anyway, that means Ukraine has control over Crimea, which means all of Russia's Black Sea shipping is within range of Ukrainian anti-ship missiles. Losing Sevastopol would be damaging to Russia, but having Rostov-on-Don blocked off and Novorossiysk a ship graveyard would destroy their ability to export grain. At that point, it would also give Ukraine grounds to forcibly establish a demilitarized zone inside Russia, and blow up anything that gets within 50 kilometers of their border.
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u/Obamas_Tie Mar 06 '23 edited Mar 06 '23
Losing Sevastopol would be damaging to Russia,
I think that's putting it mildly, if Russia loses Crimea it would pretty much herald their complete and utter defeat in the Russo-Ukrainian War.
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u/Aeonskye Mar 06 '23
Cant wait - the world will celebrate on that day
In one fell swoop, Putin has single handedly been the biggest cause in rise of Russophobia
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u/Business-Shoulder-42 Mar 06 '23
This is likely to happen over the next few months. If Russia isn't going to give them Ukraine is going to attempt to take Crimea and establish the DMZ there. I am pretty sure this has more NATO support than simply pushing back to 2022 borders.
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u/Fred_the-Red Mar 06 '23
Well, you know what they say. Russia is built on the blood of it's people.
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u/MadNhater Mar 06 '23
Ukraine is bleeding too. Just depends who can handle more bleeding. Russia has a lot more blood to bleed.
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u/nosmelc Mar 06 '23
It's not just bodies. Russia is losing incredible numbers of tanks, other vehicles, ammo, and missiles that they can't replace fast enough. Ukraine is getting supplies from nations that have many, many times the GDP of Russia.
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u/trowawufei Mar 06 '23
Russia is bleeding much, much more than Ukraine in the battle of Bakhmut. And Russia needs bodies to fight the economic side of the war, too, more than Ukraine does. Because Ukraine is not under sanctions, gets economic aid from its allies, and doesn’t have to produce the engines of war that they’re using on the frontlines.
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u/MadRonnie97 Mar 06 '23
Russia has more bodies but Ukraine has purpose and morale on their side. Those qualities do count for a lot.
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u/CustomDark Mar 06 '23
The Holodomor effectively gives them a reason to fight to the last man. They have no reason to believe if they set down arms they won’t be starved or worse
Russia just has to get uncomfortable enough to eat a leader and try again.
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u/eight_ender Mar 06 '23
Not to mention at least basic training and equipment. Hard to tell how many actually trained soldiers Russia has left.
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u/jjb1197j Mar 06 '23
They do and don’t, they’re resorting to using Wagner prison convicts because they don’t wanna deplete their pools of young ethnic Russians too much. Bear in mind this is the country that is also suffering from lowering birthrates. They can’t just sacrifice their entire gen z and millennial population for a few useless towns near the border.
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u/eitoajtio Mar 06 '23
they can’t just keep wasting thousands of lives for towns with zero impact
That's exactly what they are going to do.
No idea why you think they can't.
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u/jonahsocal Mar 06 '23
I get the feeling that we're right on the edge of something that is about to happen, and not just in Bakhmut.
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u/Masterpia Mar 06 '23
The idea is that once the ground hardens, and when Ukraine is armed with new western tanks and freshly trained forces, they are going to push south and cut off Crimea
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u/USA_A-OK Mar 06 '23
Hasn't the ground been hardened all winter?
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u/pogduhog Mar 06 '23
No, it was a relatively mild winter. Peak freeze is supposed to happen at the end of Feb/early March but it didn’t happen. This is why they chose to invade around that time last year, but the ground didn’t freeze last year either. Nothing but raputitsa mud at the moment.
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Mar 06 '23
raputitsa mud
TIL the muds that paralyzed so many invasions (mongol, napoleonic, nazi) actually have a name
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u/Noshoesded Mar 06 '23
Jeez. Climate change is ruining the shit out of a good ol' invasion.
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u/nosmelc Mar 06 '23
Ukraine has used Russian stupidity to grind them down trying to take Bakhmut, including their only half-way decent troops in the Wagner Group. Now Ukraine is going to launch a huge offensive somewhere, probably a drive to Crimea to cut it off from resupply by the land bridge.
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u/fatbaIlerina Mar 06 '23
Yeah, I think all these tanks and training and visits from Western countries are the prelude to an offensive they plan to drive through to Crimea. I'd imagine Russian troops are about to really find out the might of proper wartime logistics and planning.
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u/Tedious_Grafunkel Mar 06 '23 edited Mar 06 '23
The next offensive is most likely going to be at Melitopol first, it'll cut off the entirety of the southern front from their supply chain which will most likely force the Russians to fall back to Crimea. A lot of military analysts were saying that would be the most logical move after blowing up Crimea's bridge.
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u/phire Mar 06 '23
Perhaps not taking Melitopol itself.
Isolating all roads (and especially) rail links into it will produce near identical results.
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u/isocuda Mar 06 '23
"We're about to capture the city with ease, you should run along now"
But, also
"If I were to retreat everything would come crashing down"
Ahhh, this man is the most important man in all of Russia 🤣
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u/R_radical Mar 06 '23
Both are true.
The city is very close to encirclement, and there is a good reason Ukrainian troops are leaving the city.
If the Russians retreat then a Ukrainian counter push would cost lives and land. Kind of like kharkiv.
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u/LORD_SHARKFUCKER Mar 06 '23
He's only saying this for political pressure to get more ammunition, move along.
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u/IaMsTuPiD111 Mar 06 '23
This piece of shit Yevgeny Prigozhin shows up to battlefields that have been neutralized and parades around in his armor and talks like he was ever on the field. Fuck this guy, he is a mouthpiece and an obnoxious, hate filled, piece of shit. He and Putin should swing from the same limb when this is all over. Fuck Russia, fuck Wagner.
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u/eitoajtio Mar 06 '23
The beginning of the end for Russia starts with warnings like this.
It'll start to flare up this summer, it's hard to revolt in the winter.
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u/gofundyourself007 Mar 06 '23
Maybe but either way starting soon until late fall is going to be Russian hunting season. A revolt would be great though. The more pressure on Russia especially its leadership the better.
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u/gammamagma Mar 06 '23
Are you all blind? He is clearly drunk. I'm Latvian and people are listening to us only when it is TOO LATE. It matters very little what drunk putinists say. Keep sending weapons and humanitarian aid.
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u/IPromiseIWont Mar 06 '23
Is he threatening Putin?
It sounds very much he is threatening Putin.
If I was Putin I would have a quiet word with him. Not acting makes Putin looks weak.
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u/ITellManyLies Mar 06 '23
The two are said not to share any direct line of communication, believe it or not. I can't help but ponder what he truly wants out of this.
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u/kuralizator Mar 06 '23
He is one of the few people that wants to replace Putin when he dies.
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u/AFKeeker Mar 06 '23
Good. Burn the fuckers out of every inch of land they’ve stolen. The terrorists deserve it.
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u/DirtyProjector Mar 06 '23
Imagine the stress on these people on all sides. I can't fathom it. I don't know how they all sleep at night, or eat. I'd be an absolute mess
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u/TheWindyFan Mar 06 '23
Wait, I thought they had it surrounded? That the Ukrainians were about to retreat? Could it be he was…lying???
/s
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u/fivehundredpoundthud Mar 06 '23
The founder of Russia's Wagner mercenary force said his troops now tightening their grip on the Ukrainian city of Bakhmut were being deprived of ammunition and if they were forced to retreat the entire front would collapse.
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u/Photodan24 Mar 06 '23
So this what extortion looks like in wartime. I wonder if Putin will bend over for them.
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u/hplcr Mar 06 '23
Technically PMCs are illegal in Russia. Wagner gets away with existing and working as a de facto part of the Russian military because Putin let's it.
He could have just as easily decide Wagner is in violation of the no PMC laws and shut them down if he decides they have outlived thier usefulness.
I have no idea if/when that will happen but it's a card Putin can play.
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u/Relendis Mar 06 '23
Yeah, I hear a lot of that in Perun's videos. I have my doubts that Putin could turn off the Wagner tap. Politically, Wagner is the darling of the Russian Ultra Nationalists. Putin needs that pressure valve otherwise he'll have a major problem on his hand.
An insurrection against Putin will not come from his left, that's for damn sure.
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u/hplcr Mar 06 '23
It's a tightrope to be sure for Putin. If I understand correctly he's trying to play MOD and Wagner off each other to secure his own position which makes it harder to just dump Prigozhin.
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u/Relendis Mar 06 '23
Its a lot more complicated then just 'MoD' and Wagner.
There are a lot of ex-military senior figures in Wagner who would be Putinists over Prigozhinists any day.
And then there are complicated figures in the Russian army like Surovikin. Who was promoted to the commander of forces in Ukraine to appease the Ultra Nationalists. And then needed to be weakened, without enraging the Ultra Nationalists, so Gerasimov was given responsibility for the theater. Surovikin and Prigozhin are supposedly very tight. Tight enough that the MoD is unsettled by Surovikin.
There is a great deal of factionalism and internal real politiks at play. I mean fucking hell, even Sergei Shoigu has his own Paramilitary Company now, and he's the fucking Defense Minister.
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u/hplcr Mar 06 '23
Yeesh that's cutthroat politics.
I didn't realize just how bad it was.
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u/Relendis Mar 06 '23
That's only getting started as well!
The Siloviki are more like Warlords then political figures. And each is actively carving out their own fief, and making sure they have the might to protect it.
Kadyrov in Chechnya, Shoigu in the MoD, Prigozhin with Wagner, Sergei Lavrov has his own complicated little fiefdom, Medvedev (likely firmly in Putin's camp, but has been putting together his own powerbase), Bortnikov at the FSB, Naryshkin at the FIS. The Siloviks are largely Putin-loyalsits... ish.
That's before we start talking about Oligarches like Abramovich and Deripaska.
Hell, Gazprom is putting together its own PMC so maybe we need to start looking at figures like Zubkov (a former Russian PM) as well.
The country is a circle of pickpockets; each reaching into the pocket of the one in front, while aware of the hand creeping up on them from behind.
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u/Hahahahalala Mar 06 '23
I wonder if ammunition means more cash in Wagner accounts? Dealing with mercenaries is a hell of a thing.
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u/Relendis Mar 06 '23
Nah. Its literal. Wagner is solely reliant on the MoD's supply stores and it's supply lines. Wagner's tanks, came from the MoD. Wagner's plane(s), came from the MoD. Wagner's artillery... etc etc etc.
And Wagner's supplies come from the MoD.
Wagner's 'baggage train' is practically non-existant. Always has been.
Wagner would not exist if it did not have a pipeline from the Russian military.
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u/eitoajtio Mar 06 '23
How do you know it's not a logistical failure due to Ukrainians destroying supply depots?
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u/Photodan24 Mar 06 '23
The Wagner founder doesn't care what the reason is. He is threatening to retreat and collapse the Russian front if Putin doesn't submit to his demands.
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u/That_Guy381 Mar 06 '23
All sources from all sides show that Bakhmut is indeed surrounded on 3 sides. That is not a lie.
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u/aerfgadf Mar 06 '23
Let’s not forget that Prigozhin, as recently as last year was actively suing western media outlets and specific journalists for defamation for reporting he was even attached to the Wagner group. He literally tried to take legal action against reporters in several western countries, claiming it was fake news and slander… so yeah I’m not shocked one bit that he is still full of crap.
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u/WSHK99 Mar 06 '23
Just a day before, this guy said they are going to capture Bakhmut. Today, he is saying there is possibility to retreat. How can a normal person believe what he says ?
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u/EroticVelour Mar 06 '23
He's threatening his political enemies essentially. He's tying to boost his/Wagner's standing and make them look like the most powerful force holding the war together.