Putin falsely claims it was West that "started the war" in Ukraine almost a year after he ordered invasion

[u/Op_Market_Garden]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/putin-ukraine-war-speech-today-blames-us-nato-after-one-year-invasion/

[u/kostiels]

Uh oh. He said war. I thought it was just a special military operation...

[u/count023 → u/kostiels]

He has to go to jail now for 15 years that's the law that he signed last year about referring to the special deadening operation as a war

[u/morgecroc → u/count023]

He's talking about different war, she lives in Canada you wouldn't know her.

[u/Cool8d → u/[deleted]]

House of Russian cards

[u/EccentricFan → u/kostiels]

No, you see, it's all very consistent. Invading with hundreds of thousands of troops, fighting for a year with large numbers of deaths, destroying infrastructure, and conquering territory isn't a war. That's just a special military operation.

Sanctioning a country and providing intelligence and military aid to the target of a special military operation so that they can more effectively resist is war.

So they're not at war with Ukraine, but are at war with the West, and the West started it.

For those who aren't clear, I am not at all being serious in my declaration of that farcical logic, but it is very similar to claims I've seen made it all seriousness from Russian sources.

[u/mywan → u/kostiels]

In the Russian mindset there is no such thing as a grass roots rebellion. It's so ingrained in their way of thinking that it doesn't even need to be said. Protestors are always paid for. So when Ukraine's Revolution of Dignity took place in 2014 it was bought and paid for by the west as far as they were concerned.

So basically this accusation is implicitly predicated on this revolution in Ukraine. One that ousted Russian backed leaders, bought and paid for by Russia, when they acted against the public's wishes to associate with the west.

[u/AreWeNotDoinPhrasing → u/mywan]

Is that like how the right in the US claims all the protestors were fake actors?

[u/supermarino]

Look what you made me do!

[u/Op_Market_Garden → u/supermarino]

Look what you made me do!

Ahhh, I remember the good old days of Mom telling me I made her hurt her hand because she hit me so hard.

[u/Escobar6l → u/Op_Market_Garden]

I put my arm between me and a slap one day, I was "an asshole who hit their mom in the arm for years" like damn bruh, it was just my reaction like flinching

[u/Unlikely_Tie8166]

TFW you delayed your state address multiple times, waiting for a military breakthrough that never happened, so now you have to give the same rubbish speech as the last year

[u/ComradeMoneybags → u/Unlikely_Tie8166]

And the leader of your geo-political adversary just waltzed into the enemy capital to celebrate how much you’ve fucked up.

Edit: Thanks strangers!

[u/oalsaker → u/ComradeMoneybags]

That was an impressive display of stolen thunder.

[u/zombieblackbird → u/oalsaker]

Dark Brandon rides again

[u/kalamari_withaK → u/zombieblackbird]

The absolute night and day difference in ability at managing foreign policy between this administration and the last is honestly incredible.

If the previous administration was around Trump Would be in Moscow rimming Putin today

[u/Project___Reddit → u/kalamari_withaK]

He would be standing in the background smiling and waving

[u/[deleted] → u/Project___Reddit]

While leaning forward at an odd angle like he's shit himself

[u/Grouchy-Culture3946 → u/[deleted]]

"like" he's shit himself? More like "while" he shit himself.

[u/Shoopahn → u/Grouchy-Culture3946]

That Depends.

[u/lindre002 → u/zombieblackbird]

Dark Brandon is just expert at absolutely wiping the floor with the opposition and they can do nothing about it

[u/Toolazytolink → u/lindre002]

like how he cornered the Republicans trying to sunset Medicare and social security that was straight up Game of Thrones political move. I would vote for this man again who cares about his age he is kicking ass.

[u/qpv → u/Toolazytolink]

That was pretty impressive

[u/sillyandstrange → u/qpv]

Literally got jaw dropped when I heard that. Had to rewind and listen to it again, haha.

[u/arbutus1440 → u/sillyandstrange]

I'm not exaggerating when I say I've been screaming at my computer for YEARS wishing Dems would start getting more devious. Stuff like this needs to be just the tip of the iceberg.

Operating in a sort of Socratic, true-democracy style of dialogue, with good-faith arguments made in the public sphere that are intentionally free of pretense and subterfuge, works ONLY when the other side is at least somewhat willing to respond in kind. Somewhere in the decade of 2000-2010, Republicans exited that territory, and for the last decade they have operated almost entirely outside of the realm of good-faith arguments with the good of the country at their core. Dems have been agonizingly slow to adapt. Dark Brandon needs to sally forth and get even darker, for the survival of the republic, IMHO. And if that sounds like a bad slippery slope to you, I'd say history shows us otherwise. Tyrannical regimes rise on the backs of ineffectual opposition, not defiant opposition.

[u/graphite_all_night → u/arbutus1440]

I actually don’t think Dark Brandon is that dark. I think Biden has been really, really effective at using sunlight as a disinfectant.

We have intelligence that Russia is about to invade Ukraine? Tell the world.

We spotted a balloon? Tell the world it’s China’s and that it’s built to spy.

Intelligence that China is about to ship weapons to Russia? Tell the world. Publish it.

Autocracies have no effective response to truth. They don’t see it coming because they don’t think about truth. They think about shaping reality on their terms, and the truth always throws them.

I would venture to say that Biden’s throwing light on dark doings is the single biggest reason autocracies have wobbled this past year and democracies have strengthened.

Nothing dark about it. It’s righteous and it’s a winning strategy.

[u/kescusay → u/arbutus1440]

What gets me is that we can actually have both. A smart, reasonable, and fair leader doesn't have to pick between good-faith arguments and cleverness in forcing the wanna-be fascists into supporting Medicare and Social Security, and can use both. And in my opinion, Biden has thoroughly demonstrated he is that leader.

[u/Daneruu → u/lindre002]

Honestly I think the Dark Brandon meme just led to an absolute revolution in political strategy for his team. They're basically doing what 4chan did for Trump, but way more above board and PC, which I'm game for if it makes authoritarians and fascists look like wet noodles.

[u/Affectionate-Winner7 → u/lindre002]

They make it so easy but Biden was born for this moment in history. Pray for his continued health.

Edit: corrected prey to pray. My bad.

[u/barelyawhile → u/Affectionate-Winner7]

One of my favorite Dark Brandon moments was when he was asked by a reporter about Governor DeSantis pushing back against COVID-19 policies and he says Governor who? and then winks at the camera before walking away. The one thing DeSantis craves is populist recognition and he has said many times that the only job he has when it comes to the federal government is stand in the way of Biden. It's one of his core platforms and Biden just deflated him completely. DeSantis had nothing to come back at him with.

I just love it when Dark Brandon uses his sarcastic sense of humor to dunk on these dipshits, exactly like he did at the SotU address.

[u/MoleculesandPhotons → u/Affectionate-Winner7]

What do I need to prey on to ensure his continued health?

[u/RGJ587 → u/MoleculesandPhotons]

Small furry rodents named Tucker

[u/Obtuse-Angel → u/MoleculesandPhotons]

I’m thinking the Costco Deli? Low risk, high reward prey.

[u/Canadasaver → u/ComradeMoneybags]

I wonder if the average Russian is aware that President Biden visited Ukraine. War criminal putin heavily censors media so sharing news of the Biden visit might land a brave Russian in jail.

[u/krashundburn → u/Canadasaver]

I wonder if the average Russian is aware that President Biden visited Ukraine.

RT covered it. And they didn't like it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z-B3s6V7ss

[u/surveyor11 → u/krashundburn]

I like the part about how they could have "wasted" Biden but didn't because it would be too much. Yeah, end of times decision that one would be.

[u/new_person_new_start → u/surveyor11]

They can’t even whack Zelensky. And they tried. Oh, they really did try. But couldn’t do it. He flies around the world now. Visits European cities. Goes to US congress. Meanwhile Putin hides in his bunker. It’s just hilarious.

[u/Craft_zeppelin → u/new_person_new_start]

We should be making troll jokes on mainstream media with article headlines “Is Putin actually dead?” Every few months like Kim just to drag him out to do a parade.

[u/d1smalnow → u/Craft_zeppelin]

Genius.

Which button do I push to subscribe to receive other ideas that you have, as you have them?

[u/Gymnos84 → u/new_person_new_start]

It would be hilarious if it weren't so fucking horrible what Putin continues to inflict on Ukraine. True, he hasn't a clue about how to effectively win an aggression, but that doesn't stop the bloodshed and horrors of war.

[u/Thr0waway3691215 → u/surveyor11]

The "We should retaliate for Nordstream... one day possibly, but no rush." got me pretty good too. It's like they're actually afraid to say anything too hostile. Lol

[u/drunkenknight9 → u/surveyor11]

That's world suicide and they know it. I think someone in Russian leadership would stand up to Putin if he tried to kill the sitting US president. Not everyone in Russia is willing to go down with the ship. They're only there for as long as they're making a profit and retaining their own power.

[u/Nanocyborgasm → u/drunkenknight9]

I don’t know if you noticed, but no one is left in Russian government who will stand up to a mouse.

[u/nexusjuan → u/surveyor11]

We called ahead to let Russia know Biden would be in Ukraine. I would love to know the contents of that call. I would be willing to bet they named Putin's exact location and let them know we were tracking him with a nuke if anything happened to Biden.

[u/_BLACKHAWKS_88 → u/krashundburn]

That guy’s delusional.. he thinks they gave Biden clearance and he should have taken a helicopter to Kyiv instead of the ten hour train ride and the Russians should have gave him air support and escorted him there to meet with Zelenskyy.. lmfao you can’t make this up.

[u/LittleLion_90 → u/krashundburn]

Interesting to see it from their side with captions!

It was interesting to see that they didn't play back a clip from the press conference but only showed the footage and let the host give some highlights. To be fair I haven't watched it either but it's very easy for them to change what has been said if viewers can't watch the original footage.

Also, who are they referig to with the messy haired clown they should have taken out earlier? Are they meanig Boris Johnson or Trump? Because they were pretty close with Trump I think.

Also they pretend it's weird that America thinks they want to take the whole Ukraine while saying earlier that they will take to at least the dnipro the next 3 years, preferably further.

[u/Amy_Ponder → u/LittleLion_90]

Also, side bar: fire the editor of that show, out of a cannon, into the sun. Swear to god, all those jump-cuts and dramatic zoom-ins ever 15 seconds were giving me vertigo.

EDIT: Also, it's utterly bizarre to see how obsessed they are with domestic internal American politics. Like, they seem to know the names of more members of Biden's cabinet and have opinoins about them than I do-- and I'm an American who's obsessed with politics!

[u/The_amazing_T → u/krashundburn]

In this age, the word is gonna get out. VPN's, etc. And Russians still have SOME contact with the outside world, including nations where news isn't as supressed.

[u/Roboculon → u/The_amazing_T]

People have believed that more and more these last few decades, but fruitlessly. Propaganda works today just as well as it ever did.

The problem is that censorship was never about total control over information, it’s more about telling people what they want to hear. It doesn’t matter if the truth is available for those who seek it. People like to hear what they want to hear, and mostly, the message that “we’re the good guys in this conflict” is a really easy message to sell.

If you want another example, look at the American south. It’s 100% clear they fought a war to preserve slavery as an institution. Yet a huge portion of the population still believe otherwise, because it makes them feel better to do so. Access to accurate info has literally nothing to do with it.

[u/red_dog007 → u/Unlikely_Tie8166]

And just before Biden is walking around Kiev Kyiv with Zelenskyy.

Putin looks waf.

[u/igkeit → u/red_dog007]

I wish the Russian population was aware of it tho

[u/PrrrromotionGiven1 → u/Unlikely_Tie8166]

I remain in disbelief that they couldn't even take Kharkiv. It's literally right there on the border ffs.

[u/origamiscienceguy → u/PrrrromotionGiven1]

Forget Kharkiv, they couldn't even take Sumy, a city with 1/5th the popularion, which is even closer

[u/Puzzleheaded-Job2235 → u/origamiscienceguy]

Yeah and Sumy was largely defended by ad hoc militia units armed with whatever they could get their hands on.

[u/Lastboss42 → u/Puzzleheaded-Job2235]

because the russian military is a largely ad hoc militia armed with whatever they can get their hands on lmao

[u/bogdanbiv → u/Unlikely_Tie8166]

you delayed your state address multiple times, waiting for a military breakthrough ​

Biden's visit was timed perfectly tho

[u/Cagliostro81 → u/bogdanbiv]

Dark Brandon going full mean girl and stealing Putin’s thunder was delicious.

[u/NopeItsDolan → u/Unlikely_Tie8166]

And you now have to settle for celebrating the capture of a backwater city of 50,000 people.

[u/Winterspawn1 → u/NopeItsDolan]

If you're talking about Bakhmut I'm happy to say that the Russians definitely do not control the city.

[u/ThatOneComrade → u/Winterspawn1]

I think they're talking about that other backwater north of Bakhmut that those Wagner losers captured, funny thing is they got punished for it because they weren't just endlessly ramming into a brick wall at Bakhmut like the Military wanted them to, so now they're not receiving enough ammunition of supplies.

[u/scheve_83 → u/ThatOneComrade]

Soledhar, a salt mine basically. Meme writes itself.

[u/MarthLikinte1 → u/ThatOneComrade]

You mean Soledar? Yeah iirc that battle lasted a while and mostly consisted of Wagner forces sending wave after wave of penal units at it.

[u/Cthulhu2016 → u/MarthLikinte1]

Ah, yes the Brannigan assult.

[u/Bitey_the_Squirrel → u/Cthulhu2016]

“Most of you will die. But that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.”

[u/HutchTheCripple → u/Cthulhu2016]

Right from the Big Book of War

[u/shmorky → u/Cthulhu2016]

They've been doing that since WOII. Just look at the ridiculous amount of losses they suffered there compared to other nations: https://youtu.be/DwKPFT-RioU (from the 6 minute mark)

It's not a coincidence RTS games always gave the Russians/Soviets the cheap-but-weak units that could easily be spammed.

[u/swaziwarrior54 → u/ThatOneComrade]

Soladar was a massive Pyrric victory. And it's not even a city, it's a town. A single town.

[u/ThatOneComrade → u/swaziwarrior54]

Population of 10,000 people before the war, really worth sending the Wagner penal battalions to their death and getting cut off from the Russian supply chain as punishment for taking the wrong town.

[u/Cornelius_Wangenheim → u/NopeItsDolan]

If you're talking Soledar, it only had a population of 10k before the war.

[u/koshgeo → u/Cornelius_Wangenheim]

"The last year of sacrifice was all worth it for the sake of [checks notes] the salt mines."

[u/RandomHamm → u/koshgeo]

If they wanted salt mines, they should just play League or Overwatch

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/VitruvianDude → u/[deleted]]

This is such an important concept and explains exactly how fascism works its corrosive magic on the populace. I keep trying to shout it -- "If nothing is true, anything is possible!" but sometimes it feels like pissing in the wind. But if I could inculcate one idea in the minds of children in their education, this would be it.

[u/skywalkerze → u/VitruvianDude]

If a person is too lazy to want to disentangle the truth from a lot of contradictory information, there is no reaching them.

Of course, if you teach children to seek the truth and to make an effort, this will be prevented. But if they are adults and lazy... nobody seems to have any solution.

Shouting what you said doesn't seem different from lots of other things that have been tried in vain.

[u/C2h6o4Me → u/skywalkerze]

It's hard for me blame people and call them lazy for not having good critical thinking skills. It's either rarely or poorly taught in school, and you're basically subject to information warfare from the time you learn to read or speak. It's also hard to blame people and call them lazy when they're just so fucking numb to everything after a while.

[u/psychonaut_gospel → u/C2h6o4Me]

This exactly, so numb or ignorant by brute force manipulation of perspective.

I do often wonder why other people are do quick to accept any "official" statement. Calling the government liars but waiting for their approval or confirmation. Wtaf...

[u/TheNotSoGreatPumpkin → u/skywalkerze]

Some are lazy, but many more are simply exhausted after living for years and years under lies upon lies that they feel powerless to escape.

The Trump disaster gave the US just a taste of what many people have been subjected to for generations.

[u/psychonaut_gospel → u/TheNotSoGreatPumpkin]

Not just the lies, but the rat race and debt keeps us busy

[u/fistfullofpubes]

Stands in front of burned down house with gas and matches.

"look at what you made me do!"

[u/DoGooder00 → u/fistfullofpubes]

"With a can full of gas and a hand full of matches - And still weren't found out"

[u/luminousbeing9 → u/DoGooder00]

Thanks, I almost forgot about Dre

[u/Sin2Win_Got_Me_In → u/luminousbeing9]

Mutha fuckers act like they forgot about Dre

[u/guitarmaniac17 → u/fistfullofpubes]

The newscaster from Ted that screams "LOOK WHAT JESUS DID! LOOK WHAT JESUS DID! LOOK WHAT JESUS DID!" is how I read this, and I'm not ashamed.

[u/Electronic_Ad7882]

"But mom, he started it!"

[u/Bukseben → u/Electronic_Ad7882]

My little brother actually did try to make this argument when we were kids.

"I didn't start the fight, because it is only a fight when he chose to hit me back"

My mom busted out laughing.

[u/BananaLee → u/Bukseben]

After that, did she bust out the jandal?

[u/Mcmenger → u/BananaLee]

She provided it to the defending nation

[u/Corvette_Otoko → u/BananaLee]

You misspelled "chancla."

[u/tettou13 → u/Bukseben]

Is he a lawyer now? Cuz damn.. That's a pretty solid argument.

[u/Bukseben → u/tettou13]

Close, he works as a streetsweeper, Drives around in a little tractor sweeping trash off of the streets.

[u/WiryCatchphrase → u/Bukseben]

That's a cool job

[u/Bukseben → u/WiryCatchphrase]

I am pretty sure he loves doing it too, but he talks most about driving the snowplows in Winther

[u/SaltLakeCitySlicker → u/Bukseben]

I knew a guy who did yard waste in spring summer and fall and plow in winter for the city. Dude legit got excited for snow. I like how everything looks when it's snowy but wasn't giddy about the commute in it when he was like "it is my commute! All day!"

[u/BananaLee → u/Bukseben]

If they're anything like the ones on the streets of Vienna, they're ultra cool.

[u/Bukseben → u/BananaLee]

he drives one like this

but his has a box on the back that sucks up the trash, but it can be configured for all sorts of tasks, the picture i think is snow removal setup with salt dispenser at the back

[u/Embarrassed_Angle_59 → u/Bukseben]

Trash that got dumped from high buildings by accident

[u/walkslikeaduck08 → u/Embarrassed_Angle_59]

Oh no. Another window in the defense building broke. How tragic that someone fell out of it

[u/Keisari_P → u/Bukseben]

The Underwear Poisoner is clearly following this same logic. If Ukraina had not fought back, there would not have been a war.

Now lets reimbuse Ukraine the nukes they gave away to Russia after collapse of Soviet Union, when they were given security guarantees from Russia, USA and UK if they do so.

[u/Cthulhu2016 → u/Keisari_P]

That's the same logic the bullies at school always tried to spin, like you're supposed to just stand there and have someone assault you. You defending yourself constitutes as a right to escalate the assult and blame the victim.

[u/rshorning → u/Keisari_P]

As much as I think it was a mistake for Ukraine to get rid of their nukes, I think it is just as silly of a mistake for Ukraine to try and get them back. Nuclear weapons are an incredibly expensive tool of geopolitics and creates a whole bunch of issues in terms of deciding who has control over them and how to ensure that they are not misused by others who don't have the authority to actually deploy them. The levels of security and creating something like nuclear footballs and security locks not to mention the physical guarding of the nuclear weapons by people loyal to the central government is insanely expensive. Maintaining nuclear weapons so they can also be used practically after decades of sitting in storage is another extremely expensive practice, and none of that is about making the nukes in the first place.

I have no doubt that Ukraine has the nuclear technicians and engineers needed to create nuclear weapons. They even have working nuclear power plants and the ability to build more of them that can even be used for refining the nuclear materials for bomb grade metal. But it is just a dumb idea to even start.

[u/masoniusmaximus → u/Bukseben]

"and that's why I blew up my brother on his bike with a Javelin."

[u/vaspat → u/Bukseben]

Well, yeah, otherwise it's a beating.

[u/TheApathyParty3 → u/Electronic_Ad7882]

But Mom, I had to invade Crimea because the puppet I installed in Ukraine was facing a popular uprising! They made me do it!

^{and then again, a second time!}

[u/bonyponyride]

Putin treats world politics like the aggressor in a physically abusive relationship.

[u/Fuduzan → u/bonyponyride]

TBF Russia IS the aggressor in a physically abusive relationship with Ukraine.

It's like that because of the way that it is.

[u/CyberMindGrrl → u/Fuduzan]

Not just Ukraine but all their neighbors. There's a reason why the Baltic nations were so eager to join NATO after the breakup of the USSR.

[u/ybdiel → u/bonyponyride]

that got beat up by the partner he was aggressing

[u/EthelMaePotterMertz → u/bonyponyride]

Biden right now in Poland is talking about Russia using rape to punish Ukraine and how they bombed maternity wards and stole children to steal their future. I would agree with what you said. Putin is trying very hard to control, much like an abuser in a relationship. And that type of abuse is never only physical.

[u/ZenkaiZ → u/bonyponyride]

"WHY DO YOU KEEP MAKING ME HURT YOU UKRAINE!? :points to punched hole in the wall: YOU MADE ME DO THAT"

[u/LoveThieves → u/bonyponyride]

world politics like the aggressor in a physically abusive relationship.

Putin is an IRL evil cartoon boss that sits bored on a throne. knocking over a chess piece while playing alone because he has no friends, and the ones that used to be his friends don't play with him because they know he cheats.

[u/Image-Fickle]

How in the fuck does that even make sense they are the ones moving troops from one place to another

[u/NoTeslaForMe → u/Image-Fickle]

The speech doesn't seem to say, but presumably it's about historical grievance, which can go back as far as he likes to show that he's the victim. "It was from the West that Huaynaputina expelled its deadly ash in 1600, nearly extinguishing the Russian state, and we've been fighting for survival ever since!"

[u/aerfgadf → u/NoTeslaForMe]

Yeah I think that this is almost certainly the angle he’s coming at it. It’s hard to say for sure but I think that he’d argue that the fall of the Soviet Union is what caused the USSR to lose Ukraine initially and that was the wests fault in his eyes. So he’d probably say he is trying to make right what was kicked off by the west 30 years ago. Or to your point he could go back as far as he wants to point to something as a “justification”. To be clear, the mental gymnastics he has to do are impressive and I don’t agree with them, but this is the only explanation I can think of.

[u/maxairmike05 → u/aerfgadf]

That’s exactly what a high ranking Duma member said in an interview with the BBC, and that they’re at war with NATO. I couldn’t help but laugh, certainly made my drive into work this morning entertaining listening to that BS.

[u/Neethis → u/maxairmike05]

"In the war between Russia and NATO, Russia has so far lost 144k personnel, 3.3k tanks, 6.5k combat vehicles, 2.3k artillery pieces, 300 aircraft, 287 helicopters, and 18 ships including the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet.

NATO is yet to arrive."

[u/Hevens-assassin → u/Neethis]

"In what's now being described as 'Russian Foreplay', Putin has come early, and disappointed everyone".

[u/PM_YOUR_AKWARD_SMILE → u/Hevens-assassin]

Although this is true, I have it on good authority that:

“this totally never happens. Putin can usually come at the perfect time. Just give him a few minutes to regroup”.

[u/TheDevilChicken → u/Neethis]

That's a brilliant strategy by Putin.

Get all the 'troops dying' part of the war out of the way first and then all you're left with is winning!

It's like when I roll all the 1s out of my dices when I play DnD. /s

[u/TheApathyParty3 → u/maxairmike05]

It'd be more entertaining if there weren't so many people dying because of it.

[u/Op_Market_Garden → u/Image-Fickle]

Propaganda rarely makes sense, it's usually just bullshit spewed in the right tone of voice to influence a certain population.

[u/Player-X → u/Op_Market_Garden]

I'm predicting that there will be propagandists who will try to argue Putin's point and when they get push back they'll ask people to consider thier point or "compromise"

[u/Photodan24 → u/Image-Fickle]

The information used when gaslighting people doesn't have to make sense. It just needs repetitive reinforcement.

[u/dalaiis → u/Photodan24]

If you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe there is truth to the lie.

[u/NightSalut → u/Image-Fickle]

In their eyes, “the west started it” because Eastern European countries started busting their asses off to get into EU/NATO ever since the Soviet Union collapsed and the west didn’t stop them from advancing into these unions and agreements. In Putin’s eyes, Germany (because they believe it’s either Germans, Brussels or the US “controlling” Eastern Europeans) should’ve never allowed any Eastern European country advance into any of the unions present.

I have a crazy theory myself. You see, with eastern Germany being effectively under USSR control for decades, their people and population were fed a steady diet of “you were nazis, but Soviets defeated nazis and you should all be grateful for the soviet union for the ultimate sacrifice”. Then, when the reunification happened, I think the collective German guilt over what happened pre-WWII and during was amplified a lot with the USSR spreading the guilt very very thickly - how Germany had to understand Russian circumstances and fears etc. with the expected result that Germany would never again engage against russia in any way AND that it would stop any negative engagements towards russia by other countries too.

Thus it is a betrayal that Germans haven’t stopped the advancement of EU/NATO towards their borders in their eyes. Betrayal by the Americans too, because in Putin’s eyes, countries do not have free will - they are pushed and pulled by bigger forces. So a country like Russia is “pushed” to act aggressively because Americans are “pulling” in the countries that Russia deems as “theirs”.

[u/F0sh → u/NightSalut]

It's not so much a feeling of betrayal as strong-man politics. Putin sees the world through a cold-war lens in which the entire planet is divided into spheres of influence, and any attempt by a country to switch spheres must be opposed or else it is actually part of an attempt by the other great power to upset the balance and rule the world.

In this mindset though, it's just as you say in that most countries (in particular Ukraine) have no sovereignty in any real sense - they aren't free to choose their alignment. So Ukraine attempting to realign towards the EU should have been rebuffed by EU (and the rest of the Western world) to maintain peaceful relations.

[u/jaaval → u/F0sh]

Putin doesn’t understand what a sphere of influence is. If a country “slips” to other power’s sphere it can only be because Russia is too weak to have a sphere of influence. US or EU actions can’t really affect it. If something USA does moves a nation from Russia’s sphere it was never there in the first place.

He also fails to understand how sphere of influence works. Countries are in “sphere of influence” because the great power has something they want or need. That’s what gives the great power influence.

Russia simply doesn’t have anything the former Soviet nations want or need besides fossil fuels. And that’s not enough when EU and USA offer access to huge markets and economic growth.

[u/kaaz54 → u/jaaval]

The term "sphere of influence" is in Putin's mind probably closer to how we think of "empire".

To him there are only two types of states: Vassals and their overlord empires, of which he probably recognizes around a handful (probably Russia, US, China and India, plus maybe a few regional powers). Obviously the "empire" in this "system" is allowed to do whatever they want with their vassals, and in his mind there is no difference between the relationship between Russia and Belarus compared to the relationship between the US and the UK.

In this tortured logic, Ukraine used to be Russia's vassal and the CIA "stole" Ukraine from Russia in 2014, so now they are allowed to get it back. The fact that the Ukrainian people don't want anything to do with Russia is irrelevant in this case, as they're "not even a real people", not to mention that "people" don't even get a voice.

With all that being said, if Russia is an empire, it's a sorry ass excuse for one.

[u/jaaval → u/kaaz54]

Putin seems to be under the impression that USA is somehow required to help Russia be a great power. That great powers don’t compete but rather Russia should naturally be one because god has so ordained and USA and China should help them in that.

[u/kaaz54 → u/jaaval]

Which is honestly rather pathetic for such a "strong" empire, led by a "strong" man. "Cooperation" to him means "let me do what I want", and the denial of anything short of what he wants is aggression.

He's acting like an extremely spoiled child who keeps saying "mom said I was special, I waaaaaant this!".

[u/Alikont → u/Image-Fickle]

They also move borders on a whim.

Funnily almost entire frontline is "inside Russia" from Russian POV.

[u/Dangerous_Nitwit]

If the west started it, how is all the fighting done on Ukranian soil? Did hundreds of thousands of Russians take a wrong turn and then ILLEGALLY end up in the land of a foreign, sovereign country and were denied the right to go home? Because Im sure they can just go home if they'd like to. Im sure the west (Ukraine included) wouldn't mind if the Russians just went back to their cirrhosis olympics.

[u/Conscious_Exit_5547 → u/Dangerous_Nitwit]

"cirrhosis olympics"

That's my bands first album...

[u/therapewpewtic → u/Dangerous_Nitwit]

There’s no point in trying to apply rational thought to his logic.

[u/Dangerous_Nitwit → u/therapewpewtic]

Logically battling this nonsense is how you stop the effects of propoganda for some of the not fully brainwashed. Engage their critical thinking skills by pointing out the obvious, make them question their doubt with logic so they do not succumb to the ignorance and fear.

[u/Vahlir → u/Dangerous_Nitwit]

That's why they started off with "there is no Ukraine, it was a part of Russia and always was, it is a mistake that westerners think it is not part of Russia"

They aren't on Ukrainian soil, the Ukrainians are on Russian soil- that's how they see things.

They're deranged mad men with nukes.

[u/primal7104 → u/Vahlir]

The Russian state press published some lengthy essays at the start of the war which were explicit about the Russian goals of obliterating Ukraine, erasing all Ukrainian culture, rewriting history to claim Ukrainian history as Russian history, and even went so far as calling for a generation of re-education camps for all Ukrainians until they identified as Russians. This is part of the reasoning behind all the stolen children. This isn't just a war for territory and industrial base, it's a war to erase Ukraine.

[u/Iamcaptainslow → u/primal7104]

A.k.a. a genocide.

[u/GroblyOverrated]

For a country with thousands of Nukes, they sure are afraid of everyone. Good luck explaining that.

[u/Lisardgy → u/GroblyOverrated]

They need their society to be scared otherwise people will start thinking about their well being and liberties instead of wasting money on the army.

[u/Kansai_Moth → u/Lisardgy]

I read that a big problem for Russia is now that the entire world is online, Russians can look at all the other former USSR nations and realize how much better they are doing. The looting of Russia could finally become a political liability.

[u/nightninja13]

Ah, yes, I remember the day when NATO ordered Putin to roll in tanks. I remember clearly the calls for restraint by Russia... I remember clearly the tears Putin shed as he was forced by the west to bomb the kindergartens and hospitals. I remember the sleepless nights Putin had after he was forced to throw another person who questioned him out of a window. Why do people force him to do these things...

Wait... No, that's not right... But if Putin said it it must be true. /s

[u/TheBlacktom → u/nightninja13]

The West started the war by Russia annexing Crimea.

[u/Arcadius274]

Does he think Poland starter ww2?

[u/Grampachampa → u/Arcadius274]

Yes. And Finland started the winter war. Russia has always been the victim of these oppressive western nations

[u/Nobel6skull → u/Arcadius274]

yes. The whole USSR being allies with Hitler and invading Poland doesn’t get mentioned in Russia. Neither does lend-lease, so their grasp of history is pretty tenuous.

[u/Dalnar]

This is the crucial part of Russian culture. Always blame someone else for your problems.

[u/OutlandishnessLimp30 → u/Dalnar]

Nah, we do the same also in Italy

The difference is that we stopped invading countries since a while

[u/fozzy_bear42 → u/OutlandishnessLimp30]

The last time Italians successfully invaded another country, it was also full of Italians.

[u/Sons-of-Bananarchy → u/fozzy_bear42]

Gorlomi, when the prosciutto fell

EDIT: honestly I thought this would bomb after i wrote it

[u/ThePirateKing01 → u/Sons-of-Bananarchy]

Is this a TNG reference?

[u/Surprise_Cucumber → u/ThePirateKing01]

Aldo and Shoshanna at the theater.

[u/Drachefly → u/ThePirateKing01]

Abso-fragging-lutely

[u/ksknksk → u/Sons-of-Bananarchy]

Temba, his arms wide

[u/Cassian_Rando → u/ksknksk]

Shatner, when the wig fell.

[u/DJ2x → u/Sons-of-Bananarchy]

🤌🤌

[u/Sons-of-Bananarchy → u/DJ2x]

never forghetti

[u/WestCactus → u/Sons-of-Bananarchy]

the fifth of spaghetti

[u/Nixplosion → u/WestCactus]

The pasta, sauce and pot ...

[u/Ask_About_BadGirls21 → u/Nixplosion]

I know of no reason the pasta’s seasoning

Shouldn’t be increased, by like, a lot

[u/Kenobi_01 → u/Sons-of-Bananarchy]

There are layers to this joke and I'm there for it.

[u/QueasyHouse → u/Kenobi_01]

Lasagna, its layers deep and cheesy

[u/MC_Stammered → u/QueasyHouse]

Me, his stomach empty.

[u/WolfgangSho → u/Sons-of-Bananarchy]

This joke is so dense, every single word has so many things going on.

What is it with Ricks?!

[u/TecumsehSherman → u/OutlandishnessLimp30]

And stopped successfully invading them a while before that.

(Sorry)

[u/Desperate_Wafer_8566 → u/Dalnar]

Cue Fox News...Why did the West start a war in Ukraine against Russia?

[u/dmaterialized → u/Desperate_Wafer_8566]

You jest, but there are already tons of people who have been claiming that Russia “had” to attack Ukraine for some reason because of NATO’s, idk, existing(?) on the border of totally different countries. Even people I used to think had some degree of intelligence have been spouting that one for almost a year. It’s pretty sad. (ETA: these people aren’t Fox News viewers, they’re lefties - clearly very dumb ones.)

Like, if Russia had armies patrolling the Mexican border for 20+ years, would we suddenly have to attack China? Who would think that?

[u/UncleMalcolm → u/dmaterialized]

It’s also like…if NATO was the issue at hand, you have literally four NATO members you share a border with. Ukraine is not one of them.

[u/dmaterialized → u/UncleMalcolm]

Well, they know better than to attack a nato member. You’d have to be catastrophically stupid for anyone to mess that up.

[u/WoahayeTakeITEasy → u/dmaterialized]

Russian apologists can't even get their story straight on why Russia "had to attack". You ask 20 different Russian apologists and it'll be 20 different reasons why Russia had to do it. They're so deep in the propaganda that they can't wade through it fast enough to get the most current one.

[u/Bane245 → u/dmaterialized]

The intellectual dishonesty is absolutely insane.

[u/dmaterialized → u/Bane245]

It is, but we live in a world now where literally anything, no matter how insane, can be believed by millions of people.

[u/dmk_aus → u/Dalnar]

No see by setting up plans to defend Europe if Russia invade, when Russia had no intention to, meant that Russia HAD to invade.

And that is what NATO actually wanted, so they would go to war with Russia. But they didn't actually go to war with Russia because Russia scared the off with vim and brio.

And then, like a coward, they attacked Russia by attacking via supplying Ukraine. Which is basically declaring war on Russia.

See Russia is the innocent/victim/hero and invades from self-defence!

(/s obviously)

[u/FrettyG87]

Did everyone forget the invasion starting in 2014? Reports seem to gloss over this very important detail. We are more accurately almost a decade into this Russian invasion.

[u/vagabond_dilldo → u/FrettyG87]

People forgot Georgia (2008) as well.

[u/[deleted]]

Are Russians really this gullible?

[u/Hobbes09R → u/[deleted]]

Some, to an extent. A big part is that they become so accustomed to lying that they think EVERYONE is lying about EVERYTHING. So it becomes genuinely difficult for many to sift through facts and they just hope their side is the lesser evil.

A reminder, for instance, that many Russians who would end up defecting to the west would think that there was a grand conspiracy in order to make the west look much better than they were, that teams would be following them around and preparing things for show to make it seem they were living in an impossible paradise when all they were doing was visiting a generic grocery store.

It's a scary thing when an entire culture has been built up by gaslighting. What's scarier is that they've used the internet to increasingly do the same to other countries.

[u/Pelicanen → u/Hobbes09R]

"What is the cost of lies? It’s not that we’ll mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all."

[u/theartlav → u/Hobbes09R]

would think that there was a grand conspiracy in order to make the west look much better than they were

That's because it's exactly what is done in russia. When some big official comes to visit a town, that town gets scrubbed clean and fixed up before his arrival.

The archetypical military joke of painting the grass green and snow white before a general arrives is all they know.

[u/jelang19 → u/[deleted]]

It's survival instinct, the ones that aren't that gullible tend to suicide themselves

[u/is0ph → u/jelang19]

Or cross the nearest border.

[u/keknacho → u/jelang19]

Or GTFO

[u/SingularityBob → u/[deleted]]

Yes.

[u/H0BL0BH0NEUS → u/[deleted]]

Not all, but its deep in their culture. Allso if laws or rules are against you, just make new ones that benefits your agenda, and these are their peril allso.

[u/trollshep → u/[deleted]]

I believe a lot of the population gets it’s news from tv and i imagine they have lots of talking heads spewing propaganda. I believe they’re just as gullible as the west is in most cases. If people continue to see these talking heads spew rubbish 24/7 then it’s bound to sink in. this video goes into what the Russians see

[u/Eborcurean → u/trollshep]

It's been kind of fascinating seeing Russian nightly news discussion shows trying to spin in real time, especially around the bigger defeats Russia's had.

Obviously a lot of 'we're fighting the whole world' but it's also indicators to the internal power shifts that have gone on (see how many people have fallen out of windows). Blame pointing at 'the generals' without naming specific ones as they haven't had permission to do it. All to shift blame away from Putin and anyone who's favoured.

See also the notable shift in coverage of Wagner and Prigozhin as the latter was being built up and talked about as a possible succcessor to Putin, and who was then recently filmed having to apologise and toe the line etc.

[u/trollshep]

For those who question if Russians will believe this, this video explains what they see pretty well

[u/HunterTAMUC]

It's a common Russian (and Russian supporter) thing to go "Oh NATO is the one that REALLY started the war because they kept expanding even after they said they'd stop and Russia invaded Ukraine because they felt threatened."

[u/Otherwise-Ad-8404]

How ridiculous this little man sounds to the rest of the world.

[u/[deleted]]

I knew a guy in high school like that. He would lie about everything, even if it was obvious. Later in life he got caught impersonating a cop, something he did regularly.

[u/Zestyclose-Ad-8807]

Sure it had nothing to do with him being a power-mongering hack looking to build legacy and self enrichment.

[u/CursedLemon]

How dare the West provoke us by *checks notes* having a good relationship with Ukraine who we already invaded in 2014

[u/M142Man]

If there were no Russian troops in Ukraine there would be no war.

[u/pmodizzle]

How many Russians in Russia actually believe that this is true?

[u/SingularityBob → u/pmodizzle]

More than you'd believe

[u/coachhunter → u/pmodizzle]

There’s a surprising number of Americans who believe it’s NATO’s fault and Putin isn’t the bad guy, so I’m guessing plenty in Russia