r/technology Jun 09 '23

Meta to appeal court ruling declaring content moderators as its employees Social Media

https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/09/meta-to-appeal-court-ruling-declaring-content-moderatos-as-its-employees/
781 Upvotes

74

u/redratus Jun 09 '23

Are reddit mods employees?

76

u/playfulmessenger Jun 09 '23

Reddit mods are purely volunteers. Admins are reddit staff.

Meta, however, uses poor people in 3rd world countries to burn out their mental health watching and blocking all the horrible atrocities people try to post. They are paid, but fb/insta/etc doesn’t want to acknowledge them as employees. They want a contractor model but also want to define everything about their workday as though they were employees.

5

u/eaglebtc Jun 10 '23

It's because they:

  • don't want to pay for benefits and insurance
  • don't want to give them paid time off
  • want to be able to get rid of them at a moment's notice

1

u/StinkiePhish Jun 10 '23

Meta uses contractors like Accenture, who in 2021 was billing at least $500m per year: https://archive.ph/gMEyB

Americans from Cognizant in 2019: https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/25/18229714/cognizant-facebook-content-moderator-interviews-trauma-working-conditions-arizona

14

u/DurinsBane20 Jun 09 '23

You can make your own sub and be the mod, so no I don’t think they are.

18

u/The_Quackening Jun 09 '23

Should default subs with 10M+ users be moderated by volunteers?

there definitely should be a point in which reddit steps in to help.

12

u/DurinsBane20 Jun 09 '23

Reddit’s solution always seems to be modbot and “you’ve been permanently banned”

5

u/The_Quackening Jun 09 '23

because its cheaper.

2

u/sonic10158 Jun 09 '23

Akwardturtleguy may as well be!

131

u/rushmc1 Jun 09 '23

No free labor.

-105

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

You’re against volunteering?

Edit: I looked up Reddits definition of a moderator and this is the first sentence:

A moderator, or a mod for short, are redditors who volunteer their time to help guide and create Reddit's many communities.

It’s pretty clear this is a volunteer position and no one should expect to be paid to run their own community.

81

u/Dachd43 Jun 09 '23

You don’t volunteer for a multi-billion dollar company. That’s called being exploited.

-17

u/DJWubWubWhale1 Jun 09 '23

Sorry, a little bit out of the loop, who is forcing them to work for this company?

-56

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23

Let’s apply that same logic to the Catholic Church, the richest organization on earth. Do you think someone who knowingly volunteers their time for free at a soup kitchen can turn around and expect to be paid for it? Would you think that person is reasonable?

A volunteer is a volunteer. That was the expectation they signed up for and no one is forcing them to do it. If they don’t want to volunteer their time, go do something else. They volunteer because they enjoy their communities, not because they are employees.

63

u/tevert Jun 09 '23

Are you asking us if we think the Catholic church is a corrupt institution? You really think that's a persuasive angle?

-38

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23

No, I’m asking about volunteering!

Do you people know what volunteering means? Do you understand the wealth of the organization you’re volunteering for is irrelevant?

Free Labor = volunteering. “No free labor” = No volunteering. Super basic stuff and I’m not sure why everyone disagrees with that?

39

u/tevert Jun 09 '23

Probably because everyone else is able to develop a more nuanced perception of the world than equals signs.

-9

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

14

u/tevert Jun 09 '23

"Black-and-white idea, black-and-white thought, black-and-white assertion, etc."

"You're not as nuanced as you think you are."

-1

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

Not black and white, I’m just being clear about what I mean. Something you’re having trouble with and instead you’re pretending to be nuanced. Be specific about what you’re trying to say or don’t bother.

“No free labor” is an absolute and there’s no room for nuance in absolutes. That includes volunteer work and unpaid internships and any other free labor you can think of.

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12

u/Mundane-Willingness1 Jun 09 '23

Going off on a tangent isn't nuanced bro, and you can stop plagiarizing everyone else's comments and just changing the buzzwords.

Stay on topic if you want to have a real discussion, if you want to just be a keyboard warrior do it somewhere else

And don't forget to go outside after school today, children need vitamin D to grow up big and strong!

8

u/Mundane-Willingness1 Jun 09 '23

Unblocked you real quick to say this (don't worry I'll do it again right after so you still feel left out)

By the time I go to bed tonight, I'll have already forgotten this entire exchange, you'll probably still be mad for a few days lol

Go outside, make some friends, get a real hobby besides arguing with strangers on Reddit

And my last piece of advice: touch some grass, it's good for you

3

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23

Dude. You’re so worked up you had to unblock me to respond. I literally already forgot about you. Lol.

You’ve got no argument left so you need to insult me on a personal level when you know nothing about me. That’s pretty sad.

Expect more from yourself.

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0

u/PlanetMazZz Jun 09 '23

Way to stay on point.

You're not wrong but sometimes there's no point trying to convince sheep of anything

This is Reddit. Most young, naive but also loud and arrogant. It's a tough combo to battle.

1

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23

Nah, I just enjoy arguing with nerds who don’t know any better. It’s a lot of fun to work up the anti work crowd.

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2

u/Ionsife Jun 09 '23

I consider volunteering to be completing tasks that cant be turn into regular sustainable jobs- or ones that people wouldnt work anyways.

Picking up trash, handing out food at shelters, stuff like that is volunteerism.

Deleting posts on the internet in your free time is being an unpaid janitor.

You arent doing anything clearly good. You arent helping. Youre just doing someone elses work for free.

Volunteering is a spirit. Its (should be) an altruistic belief.

2

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23

I consider volunteering to be completing tasks that cant be turn into regular sustainable jobs

Modding isn’t a job. Reddit mod are users of the platform just like you. They are consumers of reddits product.

Picking up trash, handing out food at shelters, stuff like that is volunteerism.

Any job you do for the betterment of your community for free is volunteering. Just because your community is online doesn’t change that.

Deleting posts on the internet in your free time is being an unpaid janitor.

It’s a choice made to host a community on the platform. No one is forced to do that. How is it any different than volunteering to pick up trash on the freeway?

Youre just doing someone elses work for free.

Why would they do that? If they have a problem with what they signed up for why wouldn’t they stop?

Volunteering is a spirit. Its (should be) an altruistic belief

You don’t think helping and supporting your digital community that you enjoy and participate in doesn’t meet that definition?

2

u/Ionsife Jun 09 '23

Moderating isnt a job but can easily be a paid full or part time job with consistent hours which was my point,so since youre wrong right outta the gate im not gonna even read the rest.

Sucks you typed it.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

Why the fuck are you comparing volunteering at a church or soup kitchen to a fucking business profiting from free labor? Im willing to admit content moderation especially in something like reddit sub group where its more of building a community around whatever interests you is a bit different.

0

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23

Why the fuck are you comparing volunteering at a church or soup kitchen to a fucking business profiting from free labor?

They aren’t profiting from “free labor” anymore than the Catholic Church (another multi billion dollar organization). Reddit provides a platform and mods build a community on that platform. Mods are users just like the rest of us and it’s clearly defined as voluntary. Using a website doesn’t mean you work for the company.

Im willing to admit content moderation especially in something like reddit sub group where its more of building a community around whatever interests you is a bit different.

That’s all I’m trying to say. It’s voluntary the same way working a soup kitchen is. They’re both helping their community, one community just happens to be online.

34

u/bakedlawyer Jun 09 '23

For the largest and richest corporations in human history … yes

-25

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23

Then they shouldn’t volunteer their time. Seems pretty basic to me.

32

u/bakedlawyer Jun 09 '23

Yeah, they shouldn’t.

But it’s also pretty basic that the richest corporations on earth shouldn’t rely on free labour for the most important forward facing parts of their businesses - in this case, content moderation.

-22

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23

So don’t volunteer.

But it’s also pretty basic that the richest corporations on earth shouldn’t rely on free labour for the most important forward facing parts of their businesses - in this case, content moderation.

That’s irrelevant. This isn’t a paid position. Mods use the platform to run their communities. If they were employees and Reddit reassigned them to moderate different communities where mods were needed and removed them from their current community mods, do you think mods would be ok with that? That’s what a job is. The only expectation they have from Reddit is to maintain the platform rules. That’s not a job, it’s a hobby.

13

u/bakedlawyer Jun 09 '23

I thought we were talking about Facebook.

3

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23

Nah, we are talking about free labor and I used Reddit mods as an example of a volunteering, which is free labor.

10

u/bakedlawyer Jun 09 '23

The article and discussion and legal case are about meta.

The issue isn’t, as you ridiculously stated, simply about volunteering.

1

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23

Scroll to the top of this thread of your confused. “No free labor” is much more expansive then Meta’s legal case. Posts spawn different conversations within the comments. Plus, you responded to what I was saying. I’m not sure why you’re throwing this conversation off?

Do you agree that volunteering is free labor and do you agree with the OC’s statement of “No free labor”? That’s what we’re talking about.

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3

u/The_Quackening Jun 09 '23

Reddits front page, with its DEFAULT communities with 10M+ users still relies on free labour of moderators.

If you are moderating a community that is a core part of reddit, i don't think its too much to ask that those mods be paid.

2

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23

Reddits front page, with its DEFAULT communities with 10M+ users still relies on free labour of moderators.

No, it relies on users, including mods, to use the platform as designed and to abide by the TOS. It’s clearly defined as voluntary and no one should expect to make money from a company for using their product.

If you are moderating a community that is a core part of reddit, i don’t think its too much to ask that those mods be paid.

Why? It’s not a job. If it was a job Reddit could take any mod off their community and reassign them to any other sub to moderate. Do you think the mods would be ok with that or are they here to use the platform to build the community they want?

-8

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

[deleted]

10

u/King-Owl-House Jun 09 '23

If you wanna tell me what to do put me on the fucking payroll

https://youtu.be/JYXuDU2Z7MY

-1

u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop Jun 09 '23

It depends. Some internships are borderline exploitation, but others provide valuable experience for people who can’t join the workforce yet and give them a leg up when they do.

82

u/djdeforte Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

Oh this will not go down well. Any solution on this will most likely fuck up reddit even more.

FUCK YOU u/spez

68

u/126270 Jun 09 '23

I think you’re looking for /u/spez ?

And wait till you find out that NONE of the new API fees will go towards paying moderators for all their time/energy and NONE of the advertising money the charge go towards paying moderators for all their time/energy..

Moderators should all team up and sue Reddit into bankruptcy!!

15

u/alanism Jun 09 '23

Let’s be real, the mods on the high traffic subreddit want that power and would likely willing to pay to have their forum god powers; controlling what could be said and who can be shadow banned. I wouldn’t be surprised if some mods (like r/stocks, r/crypto, r/wall street bets, etc.) get unofficial sponsorship money from PR firms.

19

u/velifer Jun 09 '23 edited Jul 01 '23

Deleted in response to Reddit's hostility to 3rd party developers and users. -- mass edited with redact.dev

3

u/WhatHappened90289 Jun 09 '23

No I agree, fuck whoever u/spaz is too! It’s their fault the name is so close! lol

3

u/Darkstar197 Jun 09 '23

Damn u/spaz taking strays

5

u/KSRandom195 Jun 09 '23

It’s an African court.

16

u/jabfo43 Jun 09 '23

I'm getting really tired of needing to stand up for myself.

2

u/AlmostButNotQuit Jun 09 '23

Same, fam. I'm weary to the bone

1

u/kinnaq Jun 09 '23

Because you are a meta mod?

20

u/tileeater Jun 09 '23

How many genocides will it take before Meta is actually held accountable?

-11

u/redratus Jun 09 '23

Genocide is a strong word..

10

u/occono Jun 09 '23

It's not applicable here, it's applicable to culpability in Myanmar.

12

u/tileeater Jun 09 '23

How else do you define profiting against the killing of 25,000+ Rohingya people in Myanmar?

1

u/nicuramar Jun 09 '23

Not as genocide.

0

u/Norci Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

Profiting off something isn't the same thing as causing it, is it?

7

u/SpaceNoodled Jun 09 '23

So they're just not quite culpable enough, is that it?

-24

u/absurd_logic589 Jun 09 '23

How many genocides will it take to just blame people who kill massive amounts of other people? Saying Facebook made me kill all those people is a sorry excuse. I would like to think I could read nothing but misinformation non stop and still not go murder a bunch of people because they are slightly different than me.

16

u/bakedlawyer Jun 09 '23

Imagine believing that genocides are possible without the dissemination of propaganda lol.

6

u/stefeyboy Jun 09 '23

Username checks out

2

u/ayleidanthropologist Jun 09 '23

Lots of big mad up in here. Court’s in kenya if that lowers the stakes for anyone...

1

u/cosmernaut420 Jun 09 '23

They sweep shit on your site to keep it legal, eh Fuckerberg? Not paying them adequately doesn't make them not employees, it just makes you a modern day slave driver and a real life asshole.