r/politics Jan 28 '23

McDonald's president who made $7.4 million last year says proposal to pay fast-food workers $22 an hour is 'costly and job-destroying'

https://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-exec-slams-california-lawmakers-for-passing-fast-food-law-2023-1
60.0k Upvotes

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13.3k

u/I_fail_at_memes Jan 28 '23

Anybody else surprised the President of McDonald’s makes only $7 million a year?

5.3k

u/elvista1991 Jan 28 '23

I got curious so I looked into it. He's only the president of the US region. Number still seems a little low, but their leadership board is pretty big.

The president/CEO of the entire company most likely makes an obscene amount.

3.4k

u/WurthWhile Jan 28 '23

Chris Kempczinski the global CEO made $10.8M in 2020 and $20M in 2021

3.6k

u/WTWIV Jan 28 '23

Damn, wish I could get a 100% salary bump in one year.

2.5k

u/4the-Yada-Yada Jan 28 '23 Silver

He asked for a McDouble.

474

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '23

McBonus

65

u/mikesilva Jan 28 '23

He’s a Hamburglar.

79

u/NeighborhoodVeteran Jan 28 '23

Fr. I got a bonus last year, and it was only 2.5%

78

u/Morial Jan 28 '23

That's just a cost of living adjustment, and its still low at that.

84

u/13igTyme Jan 28 '23

If the cost of living adjustment is below inflation, you got a pay cut.

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u/LadyNiko Jan 28 '23

Bonus? Nope, not one from Instacart! We lowly in-store shoppers don't deserve a bonus. No, we got pink slips instead because they want to take the company public....

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u/keskeskes1066 Jan 28 '23

The McGreedy.

Triple lettuce heaped on slab of pork resting on fat white buns.

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u/fullsendguy Jan 28 '23

Hi can I have Mcjuicy please, thanks.

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u/psychodelephant Jan 28 '23

crackle of register mic turning on, voice in extreme mono with overdriven mid through kitchen PA speaker

“JUICY DOUBLE”

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u/BallDesperate2140 Jan 28 '23

In here to see what happens when the McGangbang shows up

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u/FinancialAlbatross92 Canada Jan 28 '23

So did I but all I got was a cheeseburger

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u/WurthWhile Jan 28 '23

Looks like a bunch of executives got that. Looking at previous years compensation they remained pretty flat. A mixed bag between making more or less each year. Then they shot up. Probably to be more in line with other corporate executives.

575

u/FizzgigsRevenge Jan 28 '23

They got an obscene amount of PPP loans. A lot of businesses such as theirs were able to keep people working without actually needing that cash. Now I'm not saying they took loans they didn't need and then had them forgiven, but a lot of money hitting their bottom line after doing that would certainly justify the sudden increase in exec salaries.

639

u/Immediate-Win-4928 Jan 28 '23

This is exactly what's wrong, during the pandemic the wealthy added billions to their assets, the delivery drivers and workers who kept us alive in lockdown get sweet nothing.

414

u/Cogs_For_Brains Jan 28 '23

Worse, we got covid.

147

u/Sneak_Stealth America Jan 28 '23

My employer got 3 million, remained profitable, and actually grew during the pandemic.

Im still not allowed work from home, if i get covid anf can't come in its sick time, pto, or unpaid.

99% of my job can be done anywhere with an internet connection because I work for an msp, and we already work our customers remote by way of being in our goddamn office.

32

u/PrismaticPachyderm Jan 28 '23

Saw a lot of garbage like this. I know someone who works in an essential position for one of the largest telecom companies. The company made more profit than ever before when covid hit. They also used covid as an excuse to stop paying bonuses to employees & to stop contributing to retirement accounts. Of course the CEOs all got bigger bonuses than ever before, though. They never made up for it either, of course. Thankfully, they were allowed to work from home, though, because work-from-home setups are where the company makes a lot of money in the 1st place.

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u/NimbleNavigator19 Jan 28 '23

How is an MSP not almost fully remote? I've been WFH since before Covid even. It's literally in our line of business to enable clients to do this.

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u/Cecil4029 Jan 28 '23

I work for a 100% remote MSP. Start looking for a new job, they're out there!

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u/Chaosmusic Jan 28 '23

Or shot or beaten up for daring to ask customers to wear a mask. We really suck sometimes.

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u/DugMma Jan 28 '23

I never got Covid but I also didn’t get more money

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u/Aintthatthetruthyall Jan 28 '23

The history books will read that this was the largest transfer of wealth from the middle and lower upper class to the extreme wealthy in history.

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u/RoboLucifer Jan 28 '23

Largest so far. It's going to get worse, fast

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u/Corgi_Koala Texas Jan 28 '23

I always thought it was ridiculous that the idea to keep people employed was to give all the business owners money so they could keep paying their employees instead of just giving that money to the employees who needed it.

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u/therocketofpoop Jan 28 '23

Wins are privatized, losses are socialized.

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u/sonofaresiii Jan 28 '23

the delivery drivers and workers who kept us alive in lockdown get sweet nothing.

Hey that's not fair, they got a minimum wage paycheck

Which was less than everyone who laid off and got pua made.

Such a slap in the face to all those essential workers.

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u/berfthegryphon Jan 28 '23

Socialism but only for corporations. If its for the people it's been sent from the devil.

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u/MoufFarts Jan 28 '23

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses

24

u/much_thanks Jan 28 '23

There should be a law saying something along the lines of, 'if you pay your employees so little that they require government assistance in order to survive, then the government is legally required to fine the employee's employer for 110% of the funds the employee received from the government.'

Taxpayers should not be subsidizing corporations to pay their employees an unlivable wage.

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u/Icc0ld Jan 28 '23

Socialise the profits, privatise the losses is how it should be

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u/Ch1Guy Jan 28 '23

Did McDonlds corporate get the loans or was it the independent franchisees that actually own the resturants that got the loans?

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u/ulyssesintothepast New York Jan 28 '23

Franchises got it because corporate would not allow them to be late for rent, as McDonald's owns the land they have the franchise on generally.

Really messed up.

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u/Iz-kan-reddit Jan 28 '23

They got an obscene amount of PPP loans.

While many franchises received PPP loans, McDonald's did not.

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u/bnelson Jan 28 '23

What form of comp? Some of the time it is just stock based on performance of the business. Not justifying it but executive comp is very lumpy. Upwards almost always though.

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u/Fullertonjr I voted Jan 28 '23

Your employer could do that, but apparently that would be “costly and job-destroying”.

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u/Aidandrums Arizona Jan 28 '23

Why didn't you just work 100% harder

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u/capron Jan 28 '23

while already having enough money to live off of for the rest of my life.

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u/inuvash255 Massachusetts Jan 28 '23

Weird how that's not costly or job destroying.

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u/Salsashark_21 Jan 28 '23

A 100% bump during a pandemic and recession to boot

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u/droplivefred Jan 28 '23

Especially in a year when they shutdown their lobbies and provided unbelievably bad customer service to everyone because they were short staffed across the board because “nobody wanted to work”.

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u/PricklyPossum21 Australia Jan 28 '23

Maybe you can't,

But minimum wage workers can if you raise federal minimum wage (currently $7.25/hour) to $15/hour.

Do it for them (and all the other low paid workers who earn above minimum wage but less than $15/hour and would be bumped up to $15).

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u/Lazienessx Jan 28 '23 edited Jan 28 '23

Interestingly whenever we talk about raising MW I get to hear “so you think someone flipping burgers DESERVES 10,15,20$ an hour? Your sil the emt was started at 15$ an hour! You think burger flippers DESERVE more than an emt!”

Why is the conversation never “so you think Ronald McDonald should make more than doctors? McDonald’s is more important than healthcare? A clown should make more?!”

The goalposts never stop with these people. I think it’s about time we start a new game and just not invite them.

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u/VividStrawberry6286 Jan 28 '23

I always counter with “No, your issue should be with EMT’s only making $15/hr and that your time would be better spent arguing in favor of higher wages for EMT’s rather than shitting on other workers who bust their asses 40-50+ hours per week, every damn week of the year only to still find themselves one paycheck away from being homeless.” And that they should ask themselves why it is that they’ve somehow been convinced that it’s other Americans living in poverty and advocating for better compensation that is somehow the “problem”

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u/richvide0 Jan 28 '23 edited Jan 29 '23

Or how about the conversation is never "No, I don't think burger flippers should make more than an EMT. EMTs should be paid $40/hr".

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u/bouds19 Jan 28 '23

I mean my local healthcare system CEO made $2.2M last year. While not quite as bad as McDonald's leadership, it's still insanely overinflated. Administration costs are one of the reasons why even the most basic healthcare is obscenely expensive.

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u/TheDesktopNinja Massachusetts Jan 28 '23

Well when you compare the global footprint and profits, the healthcare guy probably gets a much larger slice of their respective pie.

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u/Kedly Jan 28 '23

Non single payer (aka the government paying for it) is why your healthcare is insanely expensive. Healthcare costs in universal healthcare countries are FAR CHEAPER, because the government has the power to laugh at healthcare companies that'd try and attempt to price gouge them and go with another company that can do the entire country cheaper

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u/loggiekins Jan 28 '23

Yeah, but I heard on nightly cable news that in Canada you might have to wait to see the doctor so someone that needs more serious care can receive care faster.

That sounds like socialism to me.

18

u/jamiefriesen Jan 28 '23

That sounds like insurance company propaganda to me.

There are definitely problems here in Canada, but urgent care still does pretty well. It's when you need elective care like a hip replacement or MRI that you might have to wait.

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u/loggiekins Jan 28 '23

For sure, I was being facetious.

All systems have drawbacks, but if crippling debt/bankruptcy is it, seek another option.

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u/HerringWaffle Jan 28 '23

That is so very different from here in the US, where all of us can just call up our doctors and waltz right in later on in the hour! No Americans ever have to wait months upon months to see their primary healthcare provider! *hysterical laughter that stems from scheduling just such an appointment a few weeks ago, the soonest available appointment being in March*

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u/Incinerated_corpse Jan 28 '23

I might have to wait to see a doctor instead of financial bankruptcy? And someone who needs more care than me gets to see a doctor first? Oh that shameful, evil canada! Say it isn’t so!

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u/Your_RunescapeGF Jan 28 '23

A liveable wage? Yes, everyone who works deserves that.

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u/NastyNateMD Jan 28 '23

That's about 450 employees working full time at 22 and hour.

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u/dftba-ftw Jan 28 '23 edited Jan 28 '23

I did the math, about 1.7million mcdonald's "crew members" if you assume they all make an average of 15$/hour (probably less but that would just reinforce my argument) then jumping to 22$/hr assuming 25 hours a week and 48 weeks you end up with 1.4 Billion$ - or ~200 executive salaries. (I dropped a 10 it would actually be 14 billion or ~2000 executive salaries)

Comparing wage increases to executive salary never makes sense and weakens the argument.

It would be far better to say that mcdonald's posted a profit of 13B in 2022 so this pay raise would reduce their profit by ~9%, boo hoo share holders (more like 107% - so not doable without major changes)

Edit: oops I dropped a factor of 10, it would be 14 billion, so no mcdonald can't afford 22/hr, not without finding some savings else where or considerably raising prices.

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u/InVodkaVeritas Jan 28 '23

We measure our economic success by stock price increase, not by median wage and purchasing power increase.

From a capitalist perspective a company gaining an extra 5% in value is more important than its employees gaining an extra 50% in income.

But if the median full time worker could support a family of 4 and buy her own home on her income, the economy would be much healthier.

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u/RandomNumsandLetters Jan 28 '23

Thank you. I was like 7 million is nothing, tell me how much profits mcdonald's is making that's the important number

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u/NastyNateMD Jan 28 '23

I'm just saying those ~450 people could easily overpower and eat the CEO

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u/Bonch_and_Clyde Jan 28 '23

I feel like there is also more to the story than just that salary. Like equity comp that was maybe not paid in the prior year or will be vested in future years.

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u/recurse_x Jan 28 '23

Because of taxes often deferred comp, RSUs, options and bonuses as well as other perks cars, jet use, etc are the norm for c-suites. Also hidden value such as golden parachute clauses etc aren’t reported.

Even once you hit the mid-upper tax brackets partial deferred comp is more efficient.

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u/Chilledlemming Jan 28 '23

Comp is recognized in one of two ways.

The value intended at grant. And the income realized in a single year. Large exercises could easily cause pay to double or more in a given year.

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u/DeezNeezuts Jan 28 '23

Most of executive compensation is in stock.

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u/ChicVintage Jan 28 '23

He probably makes much more than that with bonuses and such

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u/freshnews66 Jan 28 '23

McDonalds is just a real estate company that also makes a lot licensing it’s franchise model. But costs a ton in marketing. The franchise owners are collectively making a whole lot.

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u/BlueCollarBeagle Jan 28 '23

A lot of car dealerships are like this, in a way. For example, "Ed Smith" Chevrolet is owned by Ed Smith, but Ed also owns E. Smith Properties that leases the building and furnishings to Ed Smith Chevy. Management is paid a salary and a bonus based on net profits for that month. New profits are gross profits minus salaries, commissions, utilities, and lease expense. The funny thing is that when there is a really good month and things are strong, the monthly lease goes up!

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u/flux1011 Jan 28 '23

A lot of businesses are like this in general. If you’re smart it’s what you do.

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u/Razakel United Kingdom Jan 28 '23

Yeah, you put the land and buildings in a separate holding company and rent it to the main business. That means even if the business fails you've still got a profitable asset.

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u/superworking Jan 28 '23

Also when retirement comes knocking you can sell the business and keep the land so you still have those sweet lease payments coming in.

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u/BiPillow Jan 28 '23

Many business owners also do the reverse. At retirement, leave the business to a family member, but cash out the property by selling it to someone on condition they lease it back to the business at X rate for X years. Nothing really changes except who technically owns the building/land, and the owner gets a nice retirement payout without having to disrupt/sell the business.

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u/yunus89115 Jan 28 '23

Smart and have the capital to make the initial investment. It’s easier to make money when you have money.

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u/flux1011 Jan 28 '23

100%

To make money you need money

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u/Baxtaxs Jan 28 '23

man once you get to a certain level, it's so easy.

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u/flux1011 Jan 28 '23

Stupid easy. Every multi millionaire says the first million is the hardest for a reason.

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u/satsujin_akujo Jan 28 '23

Outhouse steakback is like this - they are an actual real estate company. They have likely messed the profitability up but back when family worked there that was the case, and also the reason for their bizarre hours in most locations. This was to the tune of tens of billions.

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u/dboggia Jan 28 '23

Outhouse steakback - no rights, just rules!🎶

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u/klippinit Jan 28 '23

The real treasure is the obesity we made along the way

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u/RAshomon999 Jan 28 '23

This is what most people miss. The franchise owners are the ones that must push down labor costs for profit and is a big part of their overhead that they control.

Labor costs are really a consideration for the corporation due to how it affects franchisees because franchisees may look at higher margin or less resource intensive (time, fees, etc) options without the added income from lower wages.

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u/israeljeff Jan 28 '23

How much does chick fil a pay their workers? Even if it's the same amount as McDonald's, it renders the expense argument moot. If cfa can make money having 25 workers during meal rushes while only charging a dollar more per meal on average, McDonald's can figure out how to pay their four workers at a time a few more dollars an hour without going under.

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u/HobbitFoot Jan 28 '23

Chic Fil A has a far different business model than McDonalds currently. The food at Chic Fil A has a higher cost and there is a higher demand per location, so the land cost per meal is lower.

If anything, Chic Fil A is running on the business model of the original McDonalds brothers by optimizing locations to be more productive rather than the current McDonalds model of depressing labor costs in order to make the marginal restaurants more profitable.

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u/ajmartin527 Jan 28 '23

My cousin is in the final consideration phase for a Chick Fil A franchise in socal. It’s a really legit business model from what I’ve heard so far. They also only consider franchisees that have extensive restaurant management experience and will be super active in operations.

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u/HobbitFoot Jan 28 '23

It is a legit business model, but it will have a lower growth ceiling compared to McDonalds. You need more training than Hamburger University and the restaurants have a higher minimum gross.

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u/morningisbad Jan 28 '23

Yes, that's actually surprisingly low. Not saying it should be higher, but I'm surprised it's not.

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u/n00bcak3 Jan 28 '23

My exact initial thought. For a company the scale of MCD, $7.4M seems really really low.

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '23

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u/ertdubs Jan 28 '23

That's his total compensation including stock options

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u/BVoLatte Jan 28 '23

The real question is how much does he get in stock?

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u/WurthWhile Jan 28 '23

That already includes all compensation.

His base compensation is $686,209/yr.

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u/logicalnoise Illinois Jan 28 '23 Gold All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy Starry Narwhal Salute To The Stars

So here's the thing that all this talk keeps quiet. The company is the least important part of this. If the business can't keep going while it's employees are gainfully employed then it's a failure and should close. Instead the media, government and companies all seem to agree that the employees should bear the brunt of keeping a bad business plan working.

1.0k

u/SuedeVeil Jan 28 '23 All-Seeing Upvote

Thank god someone else says this .. it grinds my gears so hard when people think businesses should be allowed to pay as little as they can afford just to stay afloat and I have no sympathy for a business that can't pay a living wage for the a full time employee. If you work somewhere full time you should be able to live in your region, full stop. Without having to get a second job or 4 roommates. Yes business end up closing and failing, that's a risk they take and also on the other end they also have an opportunity to make a lot of money also. But it feels like especially with big business there's no risk side of it because they get bailed out .. too big to fail

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u/TheSquishiestMitten Jan 28 '23 Gold All-Seeing Upvote

I think that if a big business needs to be bailed out, we should bail them out. We should also forcibly remove all of the executives, saddle them with a special tax bracket that does not allow more than a minimum wage take-home pay for a period of, say, ten years (to help offset the cost of bailing out the company), and the ownership and all shares should be turned over to the workers. Greed must be punished at all levels.

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u/Cerpin-Taxt Jan 28 '23

Big businesses should never be bailed out. If they're so important to the functioning of the nation that the government is willing to give them money to continue operating, the bailout should constitute a purchase. Nationalise them.

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u/thunderflies Jan 28 '23

While I wouldn’t be completely against the proposal of the commenter above you I tend to agree more with you that if it was so important it couldn’t fail then it should just be nationalized and the bailout should just be the government purchasing them for the same price that any other company might have purchased them during their bankruptcy.

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u/Cerpin-Taxt Jan 28 '23

It's the only solution that makes sense.

You have a large failing business. Is it vital to society that the company continue to exist? No? Then let it fail. Yes? If it's so vital it should have been a national institution to begin with, buy it to save it from the constraints of a profit motive and being mismanaged by the private sector.

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u/beeandthecity Jan 28 '23

These are incredible ideas. Can y’all find a way to get this through our politicians heads?? I know they’re deep in the pockets of said companies but it’s nice to dream.

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u/SpartanRage117 Jan 28 '23

Its not about getting through to them because the politicians are the same type of people running the companies that refuse to pay employees a reasonable rate. Its not like they don’t get it, they’d just rather look stupid and ignore it than outright show the entire voter base that they don’t care.

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '23 edited 17d ago

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u/Themightytiny07 Jan 28 '23

I feel this so much. In 2021 my husband was looking for a new job, he applied to anything and everything (roughly 60 jobs). He had 18 interviews, and got offered 6 jobs. 2 offered living hours (30+) but not a living wage, 2 offered a living wage, but not living hours (12-15 hours a week), and only 1 offered a living wage with living hours

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u/Ok_Consideration1886 Jan 28 '23

Instead the media, government and companies all seem to agree that the employees should bear the brunt of keeping a bad business plan working.

Sounds like a dictatorship run by businesspeople

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u/poop-dolla Jan 28 '23

I think that’s called a corporatocracy.

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u/GabaPrison Jan 28 '23

I’ve long considered the 1% to be a kleptocratic oligarchy. But I guess kleptocratic corporatocracy would be more accurate. Especially here in the US.

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u/poop-dolla Jan 28 '23

Yeah, I think corporatocracy is a little more accurate than oligarchy for the US. It’s kinda splitting hairs though.

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u/TheGamerDoug Jan 28 '23

No it’s literally just called capitalism. It’s the natural conclusion.

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u/Upperliphair Jan 28 '23

I’m sorry, you expect Republicans to get on board with allowing businesses to fail? What do you think they are? Free market capitalists?!?

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u/terminational Jan 28 '23

Free market?! That's liberal talk

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u/MsFrecklesSpots Jan 28 '23

Answer is that in the USA Corporations have more rights than people. Over the decades the Supreme Court slowly, ruling by ruling, has given ever greater rights to corporations and at this current point they actually legally have more rights than people.

Corporations who have huge capital to put towards changing laws in their favor have destroyed democracy as we know/knew it. Until we change this we are all just puppets of the system.

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u/pbjamm California Jan 28 '23

In-n-Out manages to pay it's workers well and still put out a quality product at a reasonable price.

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u/MagnusRexus Jan 28 '23

In-N-Out is part of the push along with McDonald's against this bill.

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u/Zohren Jan 28 '23

Including California property/rent prices, no less!

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u/KurtisMayfield Jan 28 '23

I say the same thing about low pay. If it costs more to pay to live in your area that you can make, then something is out of whack. You just don't "deserve" low paid $15 an hour employees when their rent is $3000 a month.

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u/heidismiles Jan 28 '23

I live in an expensive city, and something I hear all the time is "Well why do they live here if they only make $X working fast food?"

I'm like, do you want these services to exist in your city? Do you want to be able to get gas, fast food, and groceries near your home? Those employees have to live somewhere. Do we expect them to commute here from 50 miles away just to make a shitty wage at McDonalds?

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u/thrillhoMcFly Jan 28 '23

Can't afford gas at those wages and distance. Also no trains because of a "not in my backyard" and "it will bring in crime" sentiment.

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u/Imprisonedskeleton Jan 28 '23

Honestly, I'm surprised most people don't see it that way.

If you can't meet the cost of business, then you arent running it very well and maybe don't need to be running a business. This is true free market capitalism.

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u/PulledToBits Jan 28 '23

While I agree, Why is this surprising? when has history ever been this way? What are we comparing to?

America used to and still does use child labor. Most people can see it however they want, but those in power and with money, never see it this way.

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u/Hiei2k7 California Jan 28 '23

Maybe if paying the workers is job destroying, maybe it's a job that shouldn't exist in the first place.

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u/Redenbacher09 Jan 29 '23

Oh don't you worry, I'm sure they're spending millions to make that a reality.

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u/Ulysses00 Jan 29 '23

Not even them. Startups are researching extensively how to automate tasks. It's the March of progress. The goal is to eventually replace all jobs.

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u/rintryp Europe Jan 28 '23 edited Jan 28 '23 All-Seeing Upvote

Someone should ask him how they can afford business in Europe then if it's so 'job destroying'.

Edit: I was pretty sure we had higher wages in Europe, but I checked, and it's only 12 EUR/h, at least for Germany - so I was wrong in that regard!

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u/Ok-Efficiency-3694 Jan 28 '23

Ask more specifically how McDonald's can afford to do business in Europe paying European McDonald's Employees a better wage withouts raising prices to European costumers.

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u/monptitbabe Jan 28 '23

I saw a video from a guy in France trying Big Macs from 100 different cities. The price varied between 4.40€ to 7.20€ for a Big Mac only.

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u/nyxo1 Jan 28 '23

And it's the same way in every country. Spoiler alert: prices are set by the cost of living where the store is located. A big mac in Manhattan is gonna cost more than Bozeman

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u/UnspecificGravity Jan 28 '23

The variance isn't proportional to the difference in wage. A big Mac in Washington costs about $4.80. It costs just under $4 in Mississippi. The minimum wage in Washington is more than double the minimum in Mississippi, and Washington workers get guaranteed sick time on top of that.

For further contrast, the most popular fast food chain in Washington is Dick's Drive-In. Their prices are directly comparable to McDonald's, but they start workers at $22 an hour, give them employer paid medical, a matched 401k, two weeks of vacation time, and a tuition reimbursement program. They've been in business for more than fifty years doing that.

The low pay at fast food chains isn't a necessity driven by the market price of their products, it's a function of the priority given to enriching corporate leadership and shareholders.

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u/muttmunchies Jan 28 '23

Bozeman is expensive. That comparison worked better a decade ago

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u/RandyRalph02 Jan 28 '23

But how am I supposed to make an unfair comparison without cherry picking my data?

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u/UnspecificGravity Jan 28 '23

The cheapest big Mac in America is just a hair under $4 and the most expensive is just over five, but the wage difference between those locations is 3 times.

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u/angrydeuce Jan 28 '23 edited Jan 28 '23

The prices are different. They have a thing called the Big Mac Index and the cost of a big Mac follows exchange rates to a certain degree.

Someone posted a receipt years ago from a 6 piece nuggets purchased in Australia and it was over 10 AUD. People were like holy shit but the minimum wage there was 16 bucks an hour at the time and when I did the math as compared to my states minimum wage and what they charge here for a 6 piece, it was pretty damn close in terms of ratio.

I'm sure there are other geopolitical factors at play that determine prices, but just saying you're generally not paying as much in, say, Bumblefuck TN as you do in an actual first world country.

Edit: People seem to be missing my point. The price of the food is determined according to the local market, and market prices are determined by what the local market can reasonably afford. It's (in part) the same reason why a software license that costs 50 bucks in the US costs like 2 dollars in local currency in SE Asia (and yes, I'm aware of the rampant piracy playing into that as well, just saying). Survey the price of a McDonalds burger here in the US and you can see the effect just the differences in minimum wage from one state to the next effects prices, or even median income from one county to another. The price of a Big Mac at the McDs in Times Square is a lot higher than the price of one in Mississippi.

I'm not saying that the costs are at all tied to wages the restaurant owners are paying, or that forcing them to pay employees more will mean their bottom line will take as significant a hit as they're claiming. What I'm saying is the prices are already set according to the highest price a market can bear. If a particularly market doubles everyone's wages, then the cost of the Big Mac will correspondingly double, ignoring all other factors, solely because the market will be able to bear that increased price.

The cost of food in the US is so manipulated already that finding the actual cost of anything is a fuck of a lot more math than I'm doing right now. Just saying as a general rule, the Big Mac index demonstrates that generally those prices are set according to what the average person there is willing to pay. McDs isn't going to jack the price of a Big Mac up to 20 dollars US because no one would pay that currently, but if everyone was making 50 bucks an hour you best believe a Big Mac would be 20 bucks.

Edit 2: also don't think I'm arguing against raising wages either. I think the current minimum wage in the US is ridiculous, and an entry level job at full time should afford someone the ability to live independently without any other financial assistance. Not live like a rock star, but at least provide for the necessities. Current wages are nowhere near that point. I'm just saying that as soon as wages rise, all these multi-national corporations are going to raise prices accordingly because they can. That's capitalism. Short of government regulation forcing prices to be kept at a certain place, there is no way to stop it short of the people voting with their wallet, and based on the lines at the drivethru of the McDs nearest my house, I really, really don't see that happening.

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u/Ok-Efficiency-3694 Jan 28 '23

I'm aware. There are 12 countries where a Big Mac costs more than the US when adjusted by GDP. Burgernomics is also interesting.

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u/ChristofferTJ Jan 28 '23

Adjusting for GDP isn't very telling compared to adjusting for minimum wage though, as the US has high GDP per capita, but also high inequality with the cheapest labor earning very little.

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u/bartpieters Jan 28 '23

Check out this video comparing McD workers in the US vs Denmark: https://youtu.be/yhBkeAo2Hlg Almost triple pay, decent holiday time and healthcare while prices only are marginally higher.

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u/ColdCruise Jan 28 '23

Universal Healthcare plays into that a lot. The company doesn't have to pay for any employees Healthcare and pays less in taxes for Healthcare than the US while also providing better healthcare.

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u/m_ferrari3 Jan 28 '23

Except companies like this keep people under 35 hours a week to avoid healthcare, then have employees on welfare subsidized by YOUR tax dollars.

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u/Nerffej Jan 28 '23

It's job destroying in that his job will be destroyed when investors downgrade McDonald's for capitulating to american workers and McDonald's has to report less growth this year than expected.

In Europe it's expected because eu has stronger worker protections and rights. In America companies don't have to do it because "McDonald's jobs aren't real jobs" despite McDonald's being one of the largest employers. And since c suite have compensation tied to corporate profits they're obligated to investors. Lol the system is fucked. Thanks Republicans.

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u/Other_World New York Jan 28 '23

McDonald's has to report less growth this year than expected.

Not no growth, or a contraction either. They will still be growing. But because it's not infinite growth based on projections we all have to lose our jobs and go into a recession.

The CEO will give himself a raise though. We're all in this together.

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u/Melody-Prisca Jan 28 '23

I hate this "Infinite Growth" model Capitalists have adopted. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate everything about capitalism, but you can't grow forever. The only way that can happen is with infinite inflation and wages rising to meet that inflation, in which point the "growth" is just on paper. Resources are finite, and at some point if wages don't rise you'll have extracted literally everything you can from your consumer base, and what then? Infinite Growth may have seemed like a good idea to short sighted people in the past, but it's really unsustainable at it's core.

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u/canooky Jan 28 '23

You're talking about the short sighted geriatric CEOs and investors that could care less about long term because they won't be alive to see the consequences? Yes infinite growth seems like a pretty good idea to them.

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u/Melody-Prisca Jan 28 '23

Some of them are already seeing it. Netflix, for example, has started to see a stagnation in subscribers. And despite being profitable, that's a problem, because they can't continue to grow if they aren't getting new subscribers. So they start cutting more and more shows, which could very well lead to an exodus of subscribers. As could their choice to stop password sharing. They could end up shooting themselves in the foot all because being profitable isn't enough, you have to grow infinitely in our society. Some industries, you're right, they won't see the consequences til their dead, but others are already facing tough decisions to try and support this unsustainable model now.

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u/Njsybarite Jan 28 '23

You think employees make $22 / hour in Europe?

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u/MostlyBullshitStory Jan 28 '23

$9/hr in France. However, housing is cheaper and healthcare is tax founded.

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u/cheap90scigar Jan 28 '23

In the letter, Erlanger noted that the company wasn't against increasing the minimum wage. "Let me be clear: we support legislation that leads to meaningful improvements in our communities, including responsible increases to the minimum wage. Our business does well when our employees and our communities do well," he said.

It’s incredibly expensive to my community for people to be paid under a living wage. The FAST Act passed because the fast food chains in our communities failed to increase wages and improve working conditions on their own.

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u/MisterDonkey Jan 28 '23

"Let me be clear: we support legislation that leads to meaningful improvements in our communities, including responsible increases to the minimum wage."

Let me be clear: we won't do the right thing unless we're forced to. We actually don't find a fuck about communities or employees, but I'm just saying we do to look good. You're all practically disposable to us, and we'd use slaves if that were legal, you fucking peons.

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u/MayBeArtorias Jan 28 '23

It is expensive for the social environment to catch those people, but it’s of cause beneficial for the company in the US

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u/fencerman Jan 28 '23 edited Jan 28 '23

In 1975, the average grocery store clerk was earning the equivalent of $29 an hour, or about $58,000 a year.

(Edit to fix the link: https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/files/docs/publications/bls/bls_1925_1976.pdf)

From the article:

"Full-time grocery clerks, numerically the largest occupation, averaged $5.33 [an hour]"

$5.33 an hour in 1975 is the equivalent of $29 an hour in 2022.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

And it was a stable, unionized job with health insurance and a pension.

So that fat overpaid POS CEO can go fuck himself.

(Oh yeah, and the average house at the time cost the equivalent of $177,000 today)

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u/InVodkaVeritas Jan 28 '23

When I was a girl I remember people treating grocery store cashier jobs like they were a good stable income for moms to go get after their kids were school age. A lot of my early memories were my mom going to the grocery store and chatting with her friends who also had kids and worked the checkout line.

My mom was in another stereotypical mom field (nurse) or she might have been a grocery cashier too.

I'm not saying the sexism of it wasn't bad. However, the ability for a woman to get a decent paying job after taking years out of the workplace to raise kids was invaluable to society.

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u/Olddellago Jan 28 '23

Yup that is what old folks can't seem to realize about the current generation. getting paid pennies on the dollar compared to what they did. We can't work hard at any entry level position for 25 years and take care of a family like grandpa did.

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u/DamNamesTaken11 I voted Jan 28 '23

My dad talks about how he was able to afford going to college working a summer job. I mention that college tuition has gone up a couple hundred percent at ** minimum**. Furthermore, the average wage earning power is a lot less than it was for him.

I got lucky with scholarships knocking off the vast majority of my tuition and board (around 80%) so my student loans were manageable even while working a minimum wage job during college days. Some of my friends weren’t so lucky and despite us being out of college for over a decade now, they still have mountains of debt to go.

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '23

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u/shittydiks Jan 28 '23

We're not even asking for better, we are asking for the same they did.

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '23

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u/UnspecificGravity Jan 28 '23

What's really shocking is that I made $5.25 as a highschool grocery store clerk in 1995. I also got full medical, a 401k, and vacation and sick time. That's a LOT of wage stagnation.

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u/pixel_of_moral_decay Jan 28 '23

And it shows how underpaid many other jobs are… a 80hr a week grueling white collar job can often pay just 2x what a store clerk made. That’s a low 6 figure job. You’re $110k desk job is under paid too by this standard.

Most people are being fucked wage wise.

And that’s the point. If minimum wage workers get fair pay, everyone’s going to want it.

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u/MrStalinko Jan 28 '23

Ahh, to be able to buy a house with three years salary, If only.

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u/Suspicious-Artist465 Jan 28 '23

Imagine thinkin $22 an hour is too much money 😂

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u/somebody12344 Jan 29 '23

there's a meme of ppl in denmark making that much working for mcds. it's true and despite taxes they take home double more than what a us worker would

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u/damnedspot Maryland Jan 28 '23

Is this like Chevron reporting that they had $35.5 billion in profits for 2022 (vs $15.6 billion in 2021) and yet gas prices were Biden's fault?

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u/AnotherPint Jan 28 '23

Chevron didn’t say that, Republicans did.

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u/lemonloaff Jan 28 '23

It’s the same picture

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u/KillYourUsernames Jan 28 '23

Chevron sure didn’t speak up to correct that narrative.

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u/AnotherPint Jan 28 '23

Chevron did not exactly rant against high gas prices. They were super happy with last year's price levels, which persisted until people started modifying their behavior at scale and buying less gas. They didn't say anything about the cause of pump prices except for mumbling about "market forces."

Anything to avoid expanding domestic production -- the big energy firms are sitting on loads of unexploited leases. That's where Republicans quacking about "energy independence" are full of it -- their donors the oil companies could make massive strides in that direction but opt not to.

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u/SquirrelHoarder Jan 28 '23

Of course it’s Biden’s fault, Trump would never allow corporations to make profits that high.

/s

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u/kurisu7885 Jan 28 '23

Trump also negotiated with oil companies to drastically reduce their production.

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u/Only-Inspector-3782 Jan 28 '23

I wonder if moronz revisited gas stations to furiously scrape their "I did that" stickers off once gas prices came back down.

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u/roundeyeddog Jan 28 '23

Of course it’s Biden’s fault, Trump would never allow corporations to make profits that high.

Ironically that is actually true, since Trump bankrupted multiple business ventures. Although that probably isn't bidens fault either.

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u/ksiyoto Jan 28 '23

Costly to whom? McDonalds

Saves having to pay taxes for AFDC and food stamps for the rest of us.

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u/goaheadcarvell Jan 28 '23

It’s a threat. Costly to the consumer that they will pass the cost on to. But then, find ways to pull it from the salary pool back to profit.

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u/MrAnonymous2018_ Jan 28 '23

Too bad they already raised prices, I swear for $5 more you can go to a restaurant and get much better food.

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u/all2neat Texas Jan 28 '23

I went to five guys last weekend. Bacon Cheeseburger, Fries, and Drink were $19. I could have had a much better meal elsewhere.

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u/naththegrath10 Jan 28 '23

9.5% increase in profit last year. Bringing their total net profit to $13bil. Plus a $870mil stock buyback.

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u/fardough Jan 28 '23 edited Jan 28 '23

I have some sympathy for franchise owners because corporate controls price increases, so they don’t get a say in passing along the cost.

However, this claim is bullshit. We are talking about a 30 cent increase per item to raise the wage to $22. We saw double this level of increase this past year, and barely any of that went to higher wages.

I call for a new company tax. If your employees pull government subsidies, the company gets billed the cost of them. We can no longer let companies pass off the cost of living to private citizens, and allow them a subsidy for employee wages. Pay employees wage or pay for the social safety net.

Edit: I now have much less sympathy for the franchisees after being informed they do get to set their own prices.

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u/ccccc4 Jan 28 '23

Do they? Here in Canada the franchises set their own prices.

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u/fardough Jan 28 '23

Well, looks like I am wrong. Heard this many times but did some research and it is not true in the case of McDonalds. Franchisees do get to set the price, so there goes my sympathy. Thanks for helping to correct me.

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u/CGFROSTY Jan 28 '23

It’s like that in the US too. Corporations can only technically provide recommendations on price. Obviously though, those prices are heavily influenced by product costs.

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u/hopeless_queen Jan 28 '23

Wah I need more money! The poor's don't need it! It's not fair! - Literally every CEO

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u/apageofthedarkhold Jan 28 '23

And by design... I don't think you can BECOME a CEO without being at least abit sociopathic

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u/AnotherThrowAway_9 Jan 28 '23

There are likely no ethical billionaires.

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u/Salohacin Jan 28 '23

CEO sitting on his hoarded gold like a dragon

"I don't understand why young people are struggling? How hard is it? Find somewhere to rent for 300$ a month, electricity bill can only be 50$ dollars, 10$ for phone, $50 for food, 50$ for car/gas, 100$ charitable donations."

"If they just cut back on luxuries like Starbucks coffee, heating and food then they can easily save 100$ a month! Start saving early and then smartly buy a house with a 20% down payment from the money you've saved!"

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u/homelaberator Jan 28 '23

The prime market for McDonald's is people on lower incomes. If you give those people more disposable cash, they will buy (amongst other things) more McDonald's.

The whole broad sweep of that is true for minimum wage in general. Putting more money into the pockets of ordinary people grows the economy bigly. They are the ones spending the money, creating the jobs that give others money to spend.

The ultimate end of shifting wealth up, into the hands of fewer and fewer, is feudalism. A handful of wealthy and powerful people that control everyone else with most the population too poor even for anything but subsistence farming. It's the death of civilisation.

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u/sfmasterpiece Jan 28 '23 edited Jan 28 '23

The rich assholes that run this country are rewarded when they treat average person like they don't deserve a livable wage.

Why do people bootlick for millionaires like this?

Take a look at the Reddit mods. They do the work for a 1.8 billion dollar corporation for free. The corporation values them as worthless, yet most of them are so brainwashed that they continue to produce value for the corporation.

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u/FaydingAway Jan 28 '23 edited Jan 28 '23

Dude makes $14 a minute. He has no grasp on what normal money is like

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u/TronCarterIII Jan 28 '23

The man makes $3560 an hour if you factor it for a 40 hour work week.

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u/paininmylefteye Jan 28 '23

I think we also need to start giving people the yearly equivalent when discussing this issue. $22/hr may sound like a lot to an older, salaried individual who worked for $5.25/hr in high school, so also describing it as $44,000/year ($22/hr working 40hrs/wk for 50 weeks) might people make the connection that it is still not a huge salary in today’s economy.

Include the fact that there often zero benefits like healthcare/dental, PTO, or disability insurance, it’s just not much to live on, especially in a bigger city. Also, home ownership? Phhht. Good luck saving up a down payment while paying rent and coving other bills.

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u/trongzoon America Jan 28 '23

🎶 Bada bap bada I’m not loving it because I can’t afford basic necessities while working at McDonald’s…🎶

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u/Skyzfallin Jan 28 '23

Fuck the CEOs and the board members that collude together to give each other raises

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u/Tough_Reddit_Mod Jan 28 '23

My father was one of the most dedicated and loyal McDonald’s corporate middle managers in existence.

They shit canned him after 9/11 to give shareholders more money.

Nobody ate less cheeseburgers.

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '23

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u/Theelfsmother Jan 28 '23

I bet he claims that he started making fries and worked really hard to get where he is today. He got there on nothing but hard work and a good attitude.

If the workers want a payrise they just need to work really hard like he did and get promoted, stuff like that.

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u/Sublime1980 Jan 28 '23

Hey, I started out mopping the floor just like you guys. But now... now I'm washing lettuce!

Soon I'll be on fries; then the grill. In a year or two, I'll make assistant manager, and that's when the big bucks start rolling in!

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u/RickTracee Jan 28 '23

Yeah because putting more money in the hands of people who will readily spend it helps the economy.

Increased wages and spending raise demand and create more jobs.

Workers stay with employers longer (instead of seeking out better-paying work with other companies) reducing businesses’ turnover, hiring, and training costs.

Lower unemployment and higher wages increase tax revenues.

When workers earn higher wages, they rely less on governmental “safety net” programs.

So yeah, it would be 'costly and job destroying.' SMH

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u/thomport Jan 28 '23

Prove it.

Give us the cost breakdown and analysis.

McDonald’s is not cheap anymore.

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u/anebbish Jan 28 '23

Amazing that people still don't understand capitalism. You don't steal alot from one person, that makes you a thief and you go to jail. You steal a little from alot of people and that makes you a CEO, job creator and you go to Congress and become an alleged Senator.

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u/hand_of_satan_13 Australia Jan 28 '23

when the economic shit hits the fan it's always the fault of the working class

get ready for some austerity politics comrades, the 'poor' rich aren't rich enough apparently

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u/BitterPuddin Jan 28 '23

Dunno about the rest of you, but I think that approach is self defeating. Fast food isn't fast. It isn't cheap. Usually the order isn't right. The employees often have attitudes because they have shit pay, and after covid knows that life doesn't have to be awful.

I have a business that has me often going on service calls, and I used to get fast food breakfast pretty much every day, and often lunch.

Now, I just scarf oatmeal for breakfast, and wait til I get home to eat. I have lost weight, and I bet I have saved thousands since covid hit.

"nobody wants to work"

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